Director's Report
CITY OF CUPERTINO
10300 TORRE AVENUE, CUPERTINO, CALIFORNIA 95014
DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
Subject: Report of the Community Development Director
Planning Commission Agenda Date: Tuesday, Tune 24, 2008
The City Council met on Tune 17, 2008, and discussed the following items of interest to the
Planning Commission:
1. Consider an appeal of a Planning Commission interpretation finding a car washing facility
consistent with the allowed uses at the Brunswick center. The appellant is Bay 18, LLC c/o
Michael T. Cheng. (The appellant has withdrawn the appeal): Removed from City Council
calendar as the appeal has been withdrawn.
2. Heart of the City Specific Plan Update. The City Council continued this item to August 19,
2008.
3. The Oaks Shopping Center planned expansion: The City Council continued this item to the
August 5,2008 meeting and directed staff to run a notice in the Cupertino Courier newspaper
for two consecutive weeks. (see attached report)
4. Receive a briefing on the Housing Element Update process and select a Council Member to
attend the Stakeholder meetings. The City Council received the report and appointed Mark
Santoro and Kris Wang to attend the stakeholder meetings. (see attached report)
5. 2008/2009 Budget: After much discussion the 2008/2009 budget was adopted. The City
Council removed funding for the Crossroads Streetscape Plan and retained funding to review
the development processes.
Miscellaneous Items
1. Early Review of Development Proposals: The City Council has requested that the Planning
Commission conduct a meeting to gain input from the public regarding the proposed process
for early review of development proposals. Attached is a verbatim transcription of a portion of
the minutes of the June 2, 2008, City Council meeting for your review to gain a better
perspective of their directive in this matter. Staff will be placing a display ad of the public
meeting notice in the Cupertino Courier and notifiying several local developers of the
discussion. The review is being scheduled for your meeting of July 8, 2008.
Enclosures: Staffreports and verbatim account
Newspaper articles
G: \ Planning \ SteveP\ Director's Report\ 2008 \ pd6-24-08.doc
CITY OF
II
City of Cupertino
10300 Torre Avenue
Cupertino, CA 95014
(408) 777-3308
Fax: (408) 777-3333
CUPERTINO
Community Development
Department
Summary
Agenda Item No. _
Agenda Date: Tune 17, 2008
Application: U-2007-04, ASA-2007-06, TM-2007-09, EXC-2008-07, TR-2008-02, EA-2007-06
Applicant: Karen Ngo, Sand Hill Properties
Owner: Modena Investment LP & Sunnyvale Holding LLC
Property Location: 21265 Stevens Creek Boulevard (Oaks Shopping Center)
APPLICATION SUMMARY:
USE PERMIT and ARCHITECTURAL AND SITE APPROVAL (file nos. U-2007-04 and
ASA-2007-06) to demolish a theater and 2,430 square feet of commercial space and
construct a 4-story, 122-room hotel; a 3-story, -56,200 square-foot mixed use
retail/ office/ conference center building over an underground parking podium and site
improvements in two development phases at an existing shopping center.
EXCEPTION (file no. EXC-2008-07) to the Heart of the City Specific Plan to reduce one
side yard setback to 15 feet for a proposed 4-story, 122-room hotel and a 3-story, 56,200
square-foot mixed use retail/ office/ conference center building at an existing shopping
center.
TENTATIVE MAP (TM-2007-09) to subdivide an 8.1 net acre parcel into two parcels of
3.0 acres and 5.1 acres in size, with one parcel to be further subdivided into four
commercial condominium units and a common area lot.
TREE REMOV AL (TR-2008-02) request to remove and replace approximately 47 trees
that are part of an approved landscape plan for an existing shopping center.
RECOMMENDATION:
On a unanimous vote the Planning Commission recommended:
. approval of a negative declaration for the project; and
. approval of the project per the model resolutions
Applications: U-2007-04, ASA-2007-06, TM-2007-09, EXC-2008-07, TR-2008-02, EA-2007-06
21265 Stevens Creek Boulevard
Page 2 June 17, 2008
Project Data:
General Plan Designation:
Specific Plan:
Zoning Designation:
Acreage (Net):
Building Area:
Commercial! Residential
Heart of the City Specific Plan
P- Stevens Creek Boulevard
Planned Development Zoning
8.1 acres
Existing Shopping Center:
Demo Theater (Phase 1):
Demo Comm'l Space (Phase 2):
122-Room Hotel (Phase 1):
Mixed-Use Bldg. (Phase 2):
Conceptual
~73,056 sq. ft.
-15,263 sq. ft.
- 2,430 sq. ft.
61,822 sq. ft.
56,194 sq. ft.
Stories:
Max. Proposed Bldg. Height (Hotel) 44' 10"
General Plan Maximum Height is 45 feet
Hotel: 4 stories; Mixed-Use Bldg: 3 stories
Building Height:
Parking:
Shared Parking Required (Phase 1): 356 stalls
Parking Supply (Phase 1): 494 stalls
Shared Parking Required (Phase 2): 417 stalls
Parking Supply (Phase 2): 470 stalls
Project Consistency with: General Plan: Yes
Environmental Assessment: Negative Declaration
on-grade garage podium
410
84
305 165
Zoning: Yes
BACKGROUND:
The Planning Commission reviewed the project on May 27, 2008 and June 10, 2008 and
took public testimony at both hearings (Exhibit A-2). A 1/2 mile radius was noticed for
the hearings. Over 1,500 notices were mailed to property owners and given to Oaks
Shopping Center tenants.
DISCUSSION
Applicant Comments
. See the applicant's written responses to the June 10th Planning Commission staff
report (Exhibit B-2).
. Applicant has revised the condominium plan, changing the wording and
reducing the number of commercial condominiums from four to two to address
the Building Division's and Planning Commission's concerns (Exhibit C-2).
Applications: U-2007-04, ASA-2007-06, TM-2007-09, EXC-2008-07, TR-2008-02, EA-2007-06
21265 Stevens Creek Boulevard
Page 3 June 17, 2008
. Applicant has revised building elevation to address City Architect's design
comments (Exhibit D-2). Changes are largely confined to the front (east)
elevation only.
. Applicant has indicated that a smaller hotel and/ or smaller, mixed-use building
is not financially feasible.
. Applicant is not in favor of phasing the Stevens Creek Boulevard (Heart of the
City, (HOC)) landscape and sidewalk improvements. The shopping center
owner is not willing to share the cost of improvements and the applicant is not
willing to bear the entire cost. They view the HOC landscaping as an "off-site"
improvement because they are subdividing the property and the portion they
want to develop has limited Stevens Creek Boulevard frontage.
. Applicant proposes a five-year expiration period to initiate the Phase 2 work.
Public Comments
Between the first and second hearings, staff received two emailed comments about the
project (Exhibit E-2). The Commissioners indicated they received many more emails,
not copied to staff. Four citizens spoke at the second public hearing.
. One of the four said the 1/2 mile radius mailing was inadequate, that the Oaks
Center is being overbuilt. Both proposed buildings should be shrunk and the
landscaped areas increased in size.
. Another resident stated that properties next to freeways should be considered
polluted (from air pollution) and that the City should discourage buildings in
these areas because it puts residents, customers and employees in areas more
hazardous to their health.
. Another resident suggested that a portion of the commercial tenant space in the
mixed use building should be reserved for independent business owners, not
corporate chain stores.
. The owner of Hobee's Restaurant wanted an explanation of how the parking
supply and garbage collection would work since it appeared that some of the
parking would be in an underground garage (not shared) and the central
garbage enclosure would be on the Sandhill property.
City Staff Comments
Applications: U-2007-04, ASA-2007-06, TM-2007-09, EXC-2008-07, TR-2008-02, EA-2007-06
21265 Stevens Creek Boulevard
Page 4 June 17, 2008
. Phasing: Staff was not in favor of the phasing proposal. Staff felt the second
phase would not be built and it would leave a gap in the shopping center. Staff
preferred that both buildings be completed at the same time.
. Mary Avenue Landscaping/Street Parking Loss: The hotel must have a more
generous rear landscaped setback from Mary Avenue or else the hotel will
appear to be too massive. This can be accomplished by setting the hotel back 20
additional feet from the Mary Avenue property line (40 feet total) and heavily
landscaping the area with trees, or converting about 36 Mary Avenue diagonal
parking stalls to landscaped area with street trees.
. Stevens Creek Boulevard (Heart of the City) Landscaping: The development
addition is significant and will increase the shopping center building square
footage by about 137%. The applicant should install the full Heart of the City
landscape improvement from the westerly driveway to Mary A venue. Because
of the restricted frontage depth between the two driveways, a modified, and less
costly, landscape improvement has been recommended by staff.
. Hotel Design: This 4-story building is in a highly visible location and will
silhouette above the adjacent one-story, retail center. Staff recommends the
significant enhancement of the architectural detailing and building finishes. The
City Architect recommended design changes that have not been fully executed
by the applicant due to time constraints. Consequently, staff recommends a
condition requiring the designs for both buildings be brought back for a separate
City Council action with recommendation from the Planning Commission.
. Contribution toward Stevens Creek Boulevard Bridge Improvement: To
improve pedestrian access and walkability, staff sought a contribution toward
the pedestrian improvement of the Stevens Creek Boulevard bridge over
Highway 85. An amount of $100,000 was sought to act as seed money toward
such improvements as safety rails, pedestrian lights and bike lanes. Other
projects next to bridges were required to make contributions or improvements
and such improvements will principally benefit this property owner.
. General Plan Commercial Development Allocation: Staff recommended that a
discounted commercial development allocation of 18,770 square feet be applied
to this 61,822-square foot, 122-room hotel because hotels generate far less peak
hour traffic than general commercial uses. A hotel allocation could not be
transferred from the Cupertino Square area because of a prior development
agreement. Staff noted that the City Council established a precedent by
approving the 100,000 square foot Public Storage facility project with an
office/ industrial development allocation of 10,000 square feet.
Applications: U-2007-04, ASA-2007-06, TM-2007-09, EXC-2008-07, TR-2008-02, EA-2007-06
21265 Stevens Creek Boulevard
Page 5 June 17, 2008
. Reducing the Maximum Restaurant Seating at the Shopping Center: The project
contemplates constructing a 165-space underground parking podium that will
not be available to customers and tenants of the rest of the shopping center. To
avoid potential, future parking overflow problems, staff recommended
modifying the 1986 master use permit to reduce the maximum allowable
restaurant seating from 800 seats to 500 seats. The center currently has 310
restaurant seats.
. Sustainability: Staff recommends that the applicant achieve LEED Silver
certification for both buildings.
Planning Commission Comments
. Phasing: The Commission was supportive of development phasing and accepted
the applicant's proposal for a 5-year expiration period (after City Council
approval) on the second development phase.
. Mary Avenue Landscaping/Street Parking Loss: The Commission agreed with
staff that the hotel must have a more generous rear landscaped setback from
Mary Avenue or else the hotel will appear to be too massive. They objected to
the loss of any Mary Avenue street parking because it is a public benefit and is
highly utilized by Memorial Park and Senior Center users, De Anza College
students and Flint Center attendees. In addition, it is an important parking
supply for De Anza Flea Market attendees and the numerous attendees of
festivals at Memorial Park. The 36 parking stalls proposed for conversion to
landscaping are all in prime locations in close proximity to the activity centers.
The Commission recommended that the Mary Avenue setback for the hotel be
increased 20 additional feet (40 feet total) to avoid any loss of Mary Avenue
street parking. It was left with the applicant to decide how best to accommodate
the increased Mary A venue setback. Some suggestions included shrinking the
size of the hotel and/ or mixed use building and/ or reconfiguring the shape of
the buildings.
Another alternative offered to the applicant was the sharing of an equivalent
number of parking spaces on the shopping center property to compensate for the
street parking loss, but the applicant was not receptive to the idea.
. Stevens Creek Boulevard (Heart of the City) Landscaping: The Commission
supported the modified Heart of the City landscape improvement recommended
by staff for the frontage segment between the two driveways, in lieu of
improving the frontage next to the Shane Company. If the Council approves this
Applications: U-2007-04, ASA-2007-06, TM-2007-09, EXC-2008-07, TR-2008-02, EA-2007-06
21265 Stevens Creek Boulevard
Page 6 June 17, 2008
alternative, staff recommends the applicant should provide an irrevocable offer
of dedication for the Shane Company frontage at this time.
. Hotel Design: The Commission wanted to see enhancements on all four sides of
the hotel. It also recommended that more detailed designs for both buildings be
brought back for a separate City Council action with recommendation from the
Planning Commission.
. Contribution toward Stevens Creek Boulevard Bridge Improvement: The
Commission wanted to improve the walkability across the bridge and saw
potential connections between the hotel and the Bubb Road industrial park. A
minority of the Commission felt the nexus for a bridge contribution was too
weak. The Commission recommended a $25,000 contribution requirement
toward bridge improvement, which was in line with other contributions sought
from other developers with projects next to bridges.
. General Plan Commercial Development Allocation: The Commission did not
recommend a discounted commercial development allocation for the hotel,
which means it supported a full allocation of 61,822-square foot for the 122-room
hotel. Despite the precedent set by the City Council, the Commission felt
uncomfortable recommending a discounted development allocation when there
was no supporting general plan policies.
. Reducing the Maximum Restaurant Seating at the Shopping Center: The
Commission recommended modifying the 1986 master use permit (Exhibit C-1)
condition to reduce the maximum allowable restaurant seating from 800 seats to
600 seats, which was the applicant's proposal. Another condition in that master
use permit allows the Commission to open up the use permit to address parking
issues in the event that parking becomes a problem.
. Sustainability: The Commission recommends that the applicant achieve LEED
Silver certification for both buildings and requires solar heating for the
swimming pool.
. Landscaping: The Commissioners noted that the western property boundary has
several dead trees not shown as dead or not shown to be removed on the plans.
The Commission recommended that the Phase 2 landscaping on the west side of
the mixed use building be shifted into Phase 1. This includes removal of any
dead trees and their replacements in accordance with the protected tree
ordinance; the substitution of native trees for the exotic tree replacements where
feasible; and two field grown oaks to replace oaks previously allowed to be
removed under emergency circumstances.
Applications: U-2007-04, ASA-2007-06, TM-2007-09, EXC-2008-07, TR-2008-02, EA-2007-06
21265 Stevens Creek Boulevard
Page 7 June 17, 2008
. Condominium Map: The Commission recommends approval of the two lot split
but had difficulty comprehending the need for the condominium plan. There
were also concerns expressed about approving a condominium plan if the second
phase was not built. The condo plan was approved with the stipulation that the
condo lines be adjusted by the final map stage to acommodated any approved
changes to the site plan.
ENCLOSURES
Planning Commission Resolutions Nos. 6516,6517,6518,6519,6520
Exhibit A-2: Staff Reports to Planning Commission dated May 27, 2008 and June 10,
2008, including initial study, ERC recommendation and Negative Declaration
Exhibit B-2: Applicant's written response to the staff report, dated June 9, 2008
Exhibit C-2: Revised Condominium plans titled Cupertino Oaks Conceptual
Condominium Plan, labeled C-1 and C-2.
Exhibit D-2: Revised Building Elevation titled: Marriott Residence Inn, Cupertino, CA,
sheet DR-7
Exhibit E-2: Public comments
Plan Set
Prepared by: Colin Jung, Senior Planner
Submitted by:
Approved by:
Steve Piasecki
Director, Community Development
David W. Knapp
City Manager
G:\Planning\PDREPORT\ CC\ U-2007-04 ASA-2007-06 TM-2007-09 EXC-2008-07 TR-2008-02 EA-2007-06 CC
Report.doc
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT
CUPERTINO
CITY HALL
10300 TORRE AVENUE. CUPERTINO, CA 95014-3255
(408) 777-3308. FAX (408) 777-3333
Summary
Agenda Item No.
Meeting Date: June 17, 2008
SUBJECT:
Briefing on Housing Element Update process and selection of a Council member to attend
Stakeholder meetings.
RECOMMENDATION:
Staff recommends that Council select one of its members to participate in the Stakeholder
process during the Housing Element update.
BACKGROUND:
Selections of Consultant:
In February 2008, staff distributed a Request for Proposals for the preparation of the Housing
Element of the General Plan to nine bay area consultants specializing in Housing Element
preparation. Of the nine consultants, two responded with proposals. Staff interviewed the two
consultants and selected Bay Area Economics (BAE) to prepare Cupertino's Housing Element
for the planning period of 2007-2014.
Housing Element Process:
In accordance with State law, California cities must have an adopted General Plan and the General
Plan must contain a Housing Element. While all elements of a General Plan are reviewed and
revised regularly to ensure that the plan remains current, state law requires that the Housing
Element be updated every five years. State law also dictates the issues that the Housing Element
must address and furthermore requires the element to be reviewed by the California Department of
Housing and Community Development (HCD) to assure that it meets the minimum
requirements established by Government Code ~65580-65589.8. This process is commonly
referred to as "certifying" the Housing Element.
The major, and most controversial, requirement for the Housing Element is that it requires cities to
adequately plan to meet their existing and projected housing needs including their share of the
regional housing need. The Association of Bay Area Governments (ABAG) recently completed
the Regional Housing Needs Allocation (RHNA). As part of this process, ABAG worked with
regional and local governments to develop a methodology for distributing the nine-county Bay
Area's housing need (as determined by HCD) to all local governments in the region. Each city
and county has received an allocation of housing units, broken down by income categories, for
which it must plan for by identifying adequate sites zoned at adequate densities. The planning
period for this version of the Housing Element is 2007-2014. In response to the allocations, each
Briefing on Housing Element Update process and selection of a Council member to attend the Stakeholder meetings.
June 17, 2008
Page 2 of2
city and county in the Bay Area will have to review, update and adopt its Housing Element by June
30, 2009.
Stakeholder Meetings:
During this update, particular attention is being paid to the public participation process. BAE
was selected as the City's consultant because of the thorough public participation plan that they
submitted with their proposal. The consultant plans on holding three educational meetings with
key stakeholders and a community workshop after the last stakeholder meeting. All stakeholder
and community meetings will be videotaped and available for viewing on the city website.
Furthermore, PowerPoint presentations with voiceovers are also being proposed for availability.
As usual, the stakeholder and community meetings will be advertised on the city web site and a
postcard with key dates will be mailed out in advance of the first stakeholder meeting.
Council Briefing Session:
The purpose of the briefing session is to allow the consultant to provide details on the public
participation schedule, including stakeholder selection, and the timeline for the Housing Element
preparation. Stakeholders will include representatives from groups including school districts,
community groups (such as 3C's and CARES), and the Chamber of Commerce. At the
culmination of the discussion on this item, the City Council will be expected to select a Council
member to participate in the stakeholder meetings.
PREP ARED BY: Vera Gil, Senior Planner
APPROVED FOR SUBMITTAL:
~
Steve PIa cki, Director of
Community Development
David W. Knapp
City Manager
Enclosures:
Timeline
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TRANSCRIPTION OF ITEM 15
A 37:762:1869:11 6:227:213:2414:17 4:11,13,2455:13 bad (8)
abhor (1) 69:1682:9 15:13 20:11 44:3 attempt (1) 17:13 29:23 31:11
83:1 agendas (2) 44:1748:2249:8 26:3 46:13 57:23 59:10
ability (4) 9:6 15:12 49:11,12,2150:5 attend (1) 60: 16 70:25
40:2 59:8 67:25 86:8 aggravated (1) applicants (9) 65:21 baggage (1)
able (3) 12:10 3:87:1114:1116:24 attention (2) 24:6
2:1846:2250:15 ago (4) 17:1118:1143:16 23:1943:4 balance (3)
absolutely (1) 26:6 28:22 46:3 43:1750:9 attenuating (1) 60:1561:2162:13
48:25 47:12 applicant-run (1) 8:2 based (1)
Academy (1) agree (6) 16:18 attenuation (1) 8:8
20:12 34:2244:7,21 53:2 application (11) 8:2 basic (1)
accomplish (1) 53:1664:2 6:157:3 13:6 16:13 attorney (27) 8:18
23:18 Ah (1) 37:2540:1642:3 25:13,1528:445:1,4 basically (1)
account (2) 10:22 43:2 49:24 51:4 45:22,23 46:6 62:21
16:1624:7 ahead (4) 63:4 47:14,16,23,25 basics (1)
action (1) 61:763:1,2564:4 applications (1) 48:18,2349:3,10 7:8
40:17 Allen (1) 2:14 64:20 65:8,17,25 beauty (1)
activity (1) 50:11 applied (1) 73:23,23 78:4,7 16:23
40:21 allow (2) 21:14 82:1983:22,24 before-mentione...
actual (1) 2:11 7:8 apply (2) attorneys (1) 86:13
42:2 altered (1) 7:9 16:21 25:19 beginning (1)
add (1) 15:22 approach (4) August (1) 71:11
11:11 alternative (5) 23:334:2336:14 82:6 behoove (1)
additional (1) 16:2121:1848:13 69:15 authorized (1) 69:24
5:2 50:6 77:18 appropriate (1) 2:15 believe (3)
address (10) alternatives (1) 32:16 automatically (1) 2:6 10:20 22:20
13:19,2021:844:1,2 27:1 approval (3) 33:25 benefit (2)
48:21 65:2,3,6,22 amenable (1) 3: 11 40:9 63:5 avenue (1) 14:2249:14
addressed (1) 77:12 approve (2) 5:1 benefits (4)
65:14 amending (1) 60:23 63:2 avoid (1) 3:223:14,1649:12
addresses (1) 78:19 approved (4) 44:23 best (4)
57:9 amendment (6) 13:661:18,1862:6 awake (1) 18:2126:1844:19
adds (3) 65:1478:1,4,1679:9 April (1) 4:1 86:8
36:5,10,21 80:10 2:8 aware (6) better (14)
adopt (2) amount (8) architectural (3) 4:9,1722:14,18 12:1830:931:20
4:6 25:25 3:37:2132:941:12 10:6,822:18 24:1659:25 35:1669:6,13
adopting (1) 66:1267:2376:14 area (1) 71:15,16,1772:3
26:9 76:16 7:9 B 72:14,1982:24
advanced (1) and/or (1) argue (2) B (2) 84:25
47:20 22:6 29:933:14 20:843:24 biased (1)
advantage (5) answer (11) arguing (3) back (35) 25:22
26:1029:430:25 9:12 14:931:20 11:1437:259:14 2:8,16 15:5 18:4 big (12)
31:333:1 33:10,11,1241:22 asked (6) 21:2524:1929:13 18:129:2431:25
advantages (2) 52:2063:169:22 2:108:1738:840:13 32:1447:1,6,12 32:6,11 39:23,24
26:9,15 71:17 60:6 78:9 48:4 52:9,14,23 40:147:255:11
advise (1) anyway (3) asking (4) 53:6,14 54:19 58:4 62:374:18
3:7 35:2555:11 74:5 75:14 78:2,20,24 61:3,17 63:13 bind (1)
advising (1) appearance (2) aspect (1) 64:2367:10,12,16 50:4
7:10 22:5 25:6 38:4 68:4,25 70:3,7,16 bit (8)
agenda (9) appears (1) assume (1) 74:3,13 82:7 84:1 5:14,227:1024:23
10:3 20:7,7 33:25 21:21 77:25 back-of-napkin (1) 42: 13,14 54:9
applicant (14) assuming (4) 8:5 84:13
Page 1
PULONE & STROMBERG, We. 800-200-1252
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTING & VIDEOCONFERENCING SERVICES
TRANSCRIPTION OF ITEM 15
black (1) 40:11 45:10 35:8 47:7 51:20 23:1,724:7,24 comments (6)
84:24 bypass (1) 65:1979:9 25:13,1526:15,22 13:1427:1228:18
Blackberry (1) 61:12 Certified (2) 26:22 28:4 29:4 32:19,2241:9
47:11 1:1786:9 33:4,9,1842:21 commission (66)
blow (1) C certify (2) 43:5,1544:8,16,22 2:9,12,16,19 3:6,10
30:15 C (5) 86:6,11 45:1,4,11,2246:6 4:4 5:3,6,13 6:8
body (8) 2:120:943:2486:1 cetera (2) 47:14,16,23,25 10:16 12:5,6,12
15:2349:1854:16 86:1 40:2543:9 48:18,2349:3,10 13:1414:1417:18
74:2275:4,477:18 caffeine (1) Chairman (1) 49:1753:2454:13 18:4,25 19:1022:6
85:12 4:1 2:9 57:260:1164:20 22:25 24:24 29:22
book (2) California (2) challenge (1) 65:8,10,17,20,25 30:2331:1,16
84:21,23 2:1886:3 42:7 72:7 73:23,23 34:2435:14 37:3,7
bothered (1) call (3) challenged (1) 74:25 75:2,9,12,18 38:1439:7,842:20
60:18 2:13 7:3 44:22 25:22 75:21 76:4 78:4,7 43:5,1549:1751:1
bottom (1) called (2) change (4) 80:1782:18,19 52:2453:654:19
3:10 70:21 82: 15 15:25 39:9 40: 11 83:4,6,9,22,24 57:6,758:1859:2,6
bought (1) Campbell (1) 43:25 CLARA (1) 60:1264:2365:2,3
38:19 22:22 changed (1) 86:4 65:5,2066:1 67:16
boundaries (1) Canyon (2) 23:3 clarifying (1) 69:972:11 73:11
74:18 20:12,13 channel (1) 51:17 74:13 75:6 77:17
boxed (1) capability (1) 54:13 clear (1) 80:11 81:23 84:11
42:24 54:12 channels (1) 71:10 84:13
breakers (1) caption (1) 40:7 Clerk (11) Commissioner (9)
3:8 86:14 chaos (1) 74:25 75:2,9,12,18 3:28:7,13 11:12,23
briefly (1) capturing (1) 62:10 75:2180:1782:18 20:1421:3,976:19
2:8 38:12 choice (1) 83:4,6,9 commissioners (6)
bring (7) card (1) 18:8 coin (1) 11:2,1412:3 15:2
6:23 15:432:13 34:8 28:24 choose (2) 44:9 17:1,3
41:1863:1264:7 cards (1) 4:2050:10 colleagues (2) Commission's (2)
bringing (1) 3:19 chooses (2) 61:8 64:22 7:1979:25
24:12 care (1) 4: 19,25 combine (1) commit (2)
broadcasting (1) 64:2 Chuck (17) 10:8 8:13 17:7
36:24 careful (1) 25:4,10 27:8 34:21 come (20) commitments (1)
Brother (2) 48:18 42:1,1244:2445:1 3:227:18 10:14 43:19
60:1662:2 carefully (1) 45:464:15,17,18 20:11 21:429:18 committed (1)
Brothers (1) 27:3 64:2269:773:16 35:25,25 39: 18 3:6
44:20 carries (1) 73:2083:15 40:6,741:847:1 committee (11)
brought (7) 82:18 Chuck's (1) 54:7 55:8,10 61:10 2:5,21 3:124:77:19
12:15 18:740:16 case (4) 29:3 61:1762:1882:7 10:6 12:2 19:3
43:4,11 50:23 21:2431:1552:13 circulation (1) comes (5) 22:16,1861:13
77:10 65:17 62:21 15:2335:137:25 committing (2)
bubbled (1) cause (3) cities (4) 46: 18 48:4 17:2 22:9
70:9 83:11 86:10,13 10:521:1222:11,19 coming (9) communication (2)
budget (2) causes (1) citizen (1) 7:25 37:5 43:23 18:1049:25
33:1734:1 25:21 65:10 48:2053:657:1 communities (1)
build (2) causing (2) citizens (5) 60:2561:2363:19 23:9
63:14,19 56:20 57:22 26:1629:433:947:3 comment (3) community (46)
building (1) certain (6) 57:22 27:14,2528:23 3:9 8:9 11:7 13:1
31:24 26:840:2156:14 city (77) commentary (1) 15:20 16:3,9,10,11
bunch (1) 59:4 64:3 65:22 1:4 3:24 4:6 5:3,13 25:3 16:25 17:4,12 18:2
34:3 certainly (9) 6:8 10:5 11:15 13:3 commenting (1) 18:6 24:24 26:4,11
business (2) 13:2,1026:1633:11 19:9,1221:10,11 9:14 29:19,2132:12
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PULONE & STROMBERG, INe. 800-200-1252
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTING & VIDEOCONFERENCING SERVICES
TRANSCRIPTION OF ITEM 15
42:2243:8,9,13,13 consequence (I) 22:10,20,2223:1 78:25 79:2,4,7,8,11 currently (I)
43:20 48:20 52:7 8:10 23:13,2524:3,4,10 79:12,14,15,17,19 22:12
54:17,21,2555:4 consider (3) 24:24 25:7 26:6,20 79:22,24 80: 1,2,3,5 cut (2)
56:1458:260:14 21:1934:11 77:18 26:23 27:9,13,15 80:6,7,8,16,18,19 46:1160:8
61:15,1562:963:9 considering (I) 27:16,17,18,21,23 80:20,21,23,25 cutting (I)
63:1571:19,21 38:20 28:3,6,8,10,12,15 81: 1,3,9,12,14,16 60:21
72: 12 74:3,16 consistent (I) 28: 18,20,21 29:7,7 81: 18,19,21,22 C-5700 (2)
77:11 82:22 29:8,2131:16,21 82:3,5,10,11,12,14 1:1886:20
community-focus... conspiracy (I) 32:2 33:24 34:9,16 83:12,13,15,18,20
16:18 58:7 34:2335:13,15,18 83:23 84:4,6,7,8,15 D
compare (I) consternation (1) 35:19,19,2036:8,9 84: 17,18,20,21,22 D (1)
84:1 57:22 36: 10, 12, 13, 15, 16 84:23,24 85: 1,3,6,9 43:24
comparing (I) contact (I) .36:16,18,19,23,25 85:13 Dana (3)
24:6 17:12 37:1,2,3,2138:14 Council's (2) 1:1686:6,20
complain (1) continue (2) 39:1,11,14,1740:4 37:7 59:8 dark (I)
63:18 67:25 68:2 41: 1,3,6,7,8,19,19 counsel (1) 29:13
complaining (I) continuing (I) 42:10,17,19,21 86:11 Date (1)
72:15 15:5 43:5,1544:11,17 county (3) 86:23
complete (I) continuously (I) 44:2345:3,9,14,21 21:1222:1286:4 Dave (I)
70:7 54:13 46:547:4,9,15,17 couple (8) 24:11
completely (8) controversial (I) 47:2448:6,16,19 2:174:5,1811:1 days (I)
3:21 5:24 6:20 15:22 20:24 49:2,4,13,17,22 18:1031:1954:4 12:9
24:434:2470:15 conversations (1) 50:8,13,17,20,24 65:4 deal (4)
71:3 25:4 51:4,5,16,22,25 course (3) 3:847:265:1870:2
complexity (1) conversation's (1) 52: 1,2,3,4,6,7,10 20:2321:147:12 deals (1)
67:20 53:9 52: 11, 13,18,20,22 court (1) 46:11
comply (1) cornered (1) 53:2,3,8,9,11,14,15 14:18 deal-breaker (I)
62:4 11:18 53: 16,18,20,24 Courtesy (1) 8:18
complying (2) correct (8) 54:1,2355:3,13,15 83:13 death (1)
61:2464:4 6:20 10:2 19:11 55: 19,20,22,23,24 cover (1) 73:20
concept (2) 28:14 39:3 49:4 55:25 56:2,3,5,6,8 7:21 debate (2)
20:1584:2 52:479:14 56:10,11 57:6,25 craft (2) 18:2054:19
conceptually (I) cost (1) 58:9,13,17,23,24 52:15,18 debating (1)
28:12 14:5 58:2559:16,17,24 create (2) 54:4
concern (2) costs (I) 60:2,4,6,8,11,13,20 25:20 26:24 decide (7)
50:8 52:22 54:10 62:7,2063:6,24 Creek (I) 4:2224:13 27:3
concerned (2) couch (I) 64:9,11,13,14,15 16:14 32:1653:5,24
5:22 15:7 26:13 64:16,1765:16,20 criteria (I) 76:24
concerns (4) Council (388) 66:3,5,10,14,18,20 64:25 decided (3)
24:1829:10,1144:1 1:42:10,11 3:3,5,18 66:23,2567:1,5,7 criticized (I) 41:1646:469:16
concl uded (I) 3:24 5:4,13 6:9,16 67:11,15,17,22 46:19 decides (3)
85:15 8:7,13,21,25 9:3,5 68:7,9,10,12,14,17 cross (I) 4:65:11 26:20
conduct (2) 9: 11, 18,20,22,25 68:21,23 70:5 71:5 35:2 decision (4)
3: 12 4:23 10:13,19,22,24 71:6,8,9,10,19,24 CSR (I) 46:2048:7,1062:19
conducts (I) 11:3,5,8,10 12:2,12 71:2572:17,18,20 86:20 decision maker (1)
2:5 12:19,20,2113:3 73:2,4,10,17,19,21 Cupertino (3) 25:21
conference (I) 13:14 14:6 15:3 73:25 74:9 75:3,5,7 1:47:2440:12 decisionmakers (I)
10:21 17:1,3,15,17 18:24 75:10,14,16,17,20 curious (I) 18:11
confidence (1) 19:5,8,12,12,14,17 75:22,24,25 76:2,3 17:23 decisions (2)
7:17 19:21,2420:2,5,14 76:7,9,11,18,21 current (4) 46:1280:13
confidential (I) 20: 16,18,21,23 77:3,8,13,15,25 35:6 36:2 57:21 deeper (I)
7:3 21:1,7,10,11 22:6,7 78:11,13,15,18,21 72:16 23:24
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PULONE & STROMBERG, INC. 800-200-1252
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTING & VIDEOCONFERENCING SERVICES
TRANSCRIPTION OF ITEM 15
define (1) developmental (1) 39:2 6:6 entity (2)
62:22 4:8 disappointed (1) drilling (1) 75:6 77:5
definitely (2) developments (2) 84:13 85:10 environmental (11) ,
15: 16 34:22 16:22 48:2 discounting (1) driven (1) 2:4,213:124:76:21
degree (1) differ (1) 42:3 54:15 6:23,247:1820:3,8
64:3 16:17 discretion (2) due (1) 62:15
deja (1) difference (2) 5:1770:23 7:4 envisioned (1)
47:6 21:1547:9 discuss (1) 6:21
demand (2) different (24) 68:16 E envisioning (2)
37: 12,24 5:246:20 11:12,23 discussed (1) E (2) 76:4,7
demonstrates (1) 12:224:2525:1,16 13:16 86:1,1 equation (1)
69:20 26:1929:330:18 discussion (13) earlier (9) 57:11 I
deny (1) 32:18,23,2535:23 2:11 3:16 5:5 12:17 27:1633:1937:13 ER (1)
44:7 38:11 42:13,14 12:21 23:8,24 42:2 46:2047:1854:11 4:12
depending (2) 70:1671:376:12 68:11 70:17 72:21 58:12,14 69:11 ERC (43)
76:13 77:4 82:21 84:2,10 74:777:10 earliest (1) 4:12,235:2,7,8,16
depends (3) differently (2) discussions (2) 82:7 5:23,23 6:6,24 8:22
14:21 18:8 28:9 49:6,14 26:25 63:8 early (29) 13:5,15 14:13,24
design-review (1) difficult (2) disinterested (1) 2:5,12 3:9 6:21 7:13 19: 1,2,2,3, 10,15, 18
5:2 14:1523:18 86:10 7:13 11:2112:13 19:18,22,2420:6
details (3) dig (1) distant (1) 14:2,22,25 15:11 22:11 24:17,20
12:139:1859:4 24:19 51:8 23:13 26:13 32:5 28:531:1233:23
develop (3) diligence (1) distributed (1) 33:2035:2536:1 51:9,23 52:8 59:.17
18:337:1265:11 7:5 37:4 40:2346:2448:15 59:1962:15,25
developed (1) direct (2) distrust (1) 48:15,1949:8,21 63:5 75:6,8,11
25:18 39:25 40:4 29:12 49:23 54:21 55: 11 ERC's (1)
developer (28) direction (4) diverse (1) 57:12 62:23
4:20,255:11,17 16:7 24:13 41:20 52:25 17:21 early-look (1) especially (1)
18:2 29:12,17 33:2 53:1 dog (1) 6:22 24:4
37:17,2538:4,8 directly (3) 46:10 easier (1) et (2)
43:9 54:7,15,22 10:1644:2,2 doing (13) 80:16 40:2443:9
56:2457:261:7 DIRECTOR (54) 7:4 10:5 11:1921:24 Economic (1) evaluate (6)
63:9,25 70:23 2:76:178:249:1,4,6 22:1232:23,24 7:11 18:1580:11,1281:4
71:17,1876:18 9:12 10:2,18,20,23 43:1045:1654:17 either (14) 81:5,13
77:11,20 10:25 11:4,6 13:21 54:2258:573:18 3:5 7:5 27:25 35:8 evaluated (1)
developers (10) 14:7 15:2,18 16:6 dollars (1) 37:341:1944:2,6 22:15
10:15 16:8 17:19 16:20 17:25 18:23 15:21 45:2355:258:14 evaluating (1)
23:13 37:12 38:15 19:4,7,11,13,15,20 Dolly (1) 59:1870:281:5 20:8
60:14,2161:23 19:2320:1,4,6,17 74:15 eligible (1) evaluation (1)
70:11 20:19,22,2421:6 dot (1) 7:18 6:24
developer-hosted... 21:20 22:9,14,21 35:3 emails (2) evening (1)
37:22 38:18 23:225:3,8,1428:5 double-edged (1) 13:231:2 3:24
developer-run (1) 28:9,11,1449:19 15:17 empower (1) events (2)
77:22 50:12,14,18,22 downside (2) 62:9 5:9,21
developing (2) disadvantage (1) 21:20 67:20 empowered (1) eventually (1)
16:1626:11 26:22 drags (1) 58:19 47:2
development (17) disadvantages (1) 33:6 encourage (2) everybody (2)
2:4,13,143:74:10 26:8 drawings (1) 61:7 63:9 11:2033:3
4:197:2,129:16 disagree (4) 40:8 encouraging (1) everybody's (1)
13:424:1 26:438:6 30:1561:668:14 drawn-out (1) 68:1 48:5
40:21,22 54:6 70:1 29:6 entertain (1) evidence (1)
62:25 disagreement (1) DRC (1) 74:8 14:19
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PULONE & STROMBERG, INC. 800-200-1252
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTING & VIDEOCONFERENCING SERVICES
TRANSCRIPTION OF ITEM 15
evils (1) fact (6) file (1) formal (7) functions (1)
51:10 6:22 7:11 17:3 28:25 49:24 10:7 37:25 46:21 6:20
evolved (1) 32:7 50:24 filmed (1) 69:877:1878:23 further (2)
46:13 facts (1) 54:12 78:23 43:2586:11
exactly (1) 22:1 final (1) formalize (2) future (1)
23:9 fair (5) 40:9 50:20 70:22 8:16
example (9) 13:24,25 14:19 find (2) formalized (1)
7:24 20:20 40: 12 15:1448:9 2:187:8 18:14 G
43:11 44:19 59:9,9 faith (1) fine (4) formalizing (1) Gatos (2)
60: 16 76:9 26:1 46:8 54:2 80:24 43:18 22:1531:14
examples (1) fall (2) 81:15 formally (1) Gee (2)
2:17 44:2445:9 fine-tune (1) 73:5 39:9,9
excellent (1) false (1) 79:19 format (1) general (11)
49:1 70:10 finished (1) 23:6 7:838:1661:23,24
excuse (1) far (1) 68:11 formed (4) 62:5,563:17,18
9:19 26:10 first (24) 11:2545:1575:6,11 64:4,465:14
existing (1) Farm (1) 11:22 14:2 16:23 forth (2) getting (4)
2:21 47:11 19:6,18,21 20:11 14:1974:4 54:25 56:22 77:20
expansion (1) Fashion (1) 21:11 22:10,15 forum (1) 79:25
7:25 43:12 24: 12,14,14,17 50:23 Gilbert (3)
expect (1) fashioned (1) 26:228:2331:17 forward (3) 41:5,23 42:9
46:22 83:24 54:555:557:11 7:2520:11 50:24 give (8)
expectation (2) fastidious (1) 60:1764:2265:5 found (2) 14:2232:1541:13
23:22 49:22 24:3 69:14 38:8,10 41:2043:2252:24
. expected (2) favor (4) first-look (1) four (2) 52:25 57:15
23:15,16 34:546:16,1648:2 20:9 18:1946:8 given (2)
expects (2) fee (5) fit (1) four-lot (1) 35:583:18
13:24,25 4:21 5:196:13 32:6 44:9 31:24 glimpse (1)
expedite (1) 54:9 five (1) frame (4) 29:16
33:10 feel (4) 46:8 74:1775:13,19 go (47)
Expediting (1) 25:1258:2,960:14 flexible (1) 81:23 3:44:47:16 14:4,13
33:11 feeling (1) 70:3 frankly (1) 14:13 17:1118:4
experience (2) 51:1 focus (1) 37:19 18:18 19:1,8,921:3
74:2,2 feelings (1) 82:16 freight (1) 23:524:13 28:20
experiment (3) 25:10 follow (1) 16:24 29:530:1431:21
29:2533:2034:10 feels (4) 28:11 fresher (1) 32:1234:136:6
expertise (1) 14:1742:2244:20 followed (2) 69:11 37:1238:139:10
85:8 67:7 26:1,2 friendly (4) 39:19,2240:4,13
explained (1) fees (1) follow-up (2) 53:1078:1,1680:9 40:14,17,2341:6,9
45:11 40:24 9:21 27:24 frightened (1) 41:1660:9,961:15
extremes (1) felt (3) foot (1) 73:20 63:4 64:4,4 69:21
3:5 2:233:167:7 31:24 front (8) 70:2474:3,14
FEMALE (2) footage (3) 12:11 34:8,8 38:4 83:25,25
F 28:255:17 40:2266:12,15 55:8,1062:1076:9 goal (1)
F (1) fight (1) force (2) frustrated (1) 70:15
86:1 46:23 56:1458:16 44:20 goals (1)
faced (1) fighting (1) foregoing (1) frustration (1) 70:8
7:24 72:1 86:7 24:22 goes (8)
facilitate (1) fights (2) forgot (1) frustrations (1) 5:37:3 14:2322:25
30:9 11:16,17 38:6 25:2 24:1935:239:7
facilitating (1) figure (2) form (1) fully (1) 44:5
23:25 66:22 69:24 57:7 9:9 going (47)
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PULONE & STROMBERG, INe. 800-200-1252
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4:15,225:12 11:10 growing (1) 51:1863:13 67:11 history (1) 79:583:184:11
15:13 18:15 19:1 44:14 72:15 8:8 ideas (7)
23:15,1724:17 growth (1) heard (11) hit (1) 21:451:1954:469:2
30:1931:1233:14 9:16 11:23 12:1429:2 56:25 69:8,13 84:10
34:1735:1238:22 guarantee (1) 32:2237:1653:21 Hmm (1) ignoring (1)
39:1841:2242:6 46:24 60:1064:2265:3 42:16 27:22
42:13 50:14 52:8 guess (11) 70:11,13 hold (1) imagine (1)
52: 16,23 56:25 11:12,2112:14,24 hearing (23) 7:17 20:6
58:3,4,6 59:20,21 13:18 15:2430:11 9:10,10 13:25 14:1 holding (1) immediately (1)
62:963:1465:9 34:1656:1258:25 15:15 17:1821:22 21:22 46:19
68:1773:13 74:6 75:10 21:22 25:20,20,23 hole (4) impact (1)
74:11,1276:24 guidance (1) 38:1346:10,21 23:1024:2,8,19 15:8
77:582:2384:18 57:16 50:4,951:19,24 home (1) impacts (1)
84:1985:2,5,7,7 gut (1) 54:861:14 71:1 64:8 20:8
good (45) 9:15 73:7 77:22 hopefully (3) impartial (5)
3:246:11,1110:15 guys (3) hearings (9) 3:2530:237:16 13:25 14:1,20 15:14
10:17 16:2123:12 34:235:251:17 8:16 13:2426:25 hoping (1) 48:9
23:2126:129:19 40:14,1846:21 16:14 impasse (1)
29:2030:2,731:10 H 48:2565:1377:21 horizon (1) 43:4
31:1833:4,8,11,13 Ha (1) hefty (1) 44:5 implementing (1)
34:1035:1042:5 30:14 82:9 horrible (1) 51:5
42:2543:1,11,16 half (4) Heights (1) 43:17 implied (1)
46:7 50:6,951:8 28:2233:557:10,11 20:12 horrid (1) 58:15
57:1263:2369:7 hand (3) held (1) 57:21 important (5)
69:23 70:24,25 18:1742:386:16 21:16 host (2) 8:1233:1869:4,18
71:1,18,18,19,20 hands (1) hell (1) 38:165:7 71:22
71:20 73:6 74:7 61:9 34:19 hot (1) improve (1)
81:19 Hang (1) help (5) 24:9 47:22
gotten (1) 68:9 15:2049:1650:15 hotel (1) inadvertently (1)
13:2 happen (4) 56:23,24 39:22 26:5
government (5) 45:2555:1057:25 helped (1) hour (5) included (3)
29:25 58:3 61:5,19 58:1 37:16 28:22 43:22,22 74:8 78:8,10 81:8
77:19 happened (3) helpful (2) 83:2 incumbent (1)
gradually (1) 5:8 34:25 72:6 7:1465:8 house (1) 40:20
46:9 happening (1) hereunto (1) 32:3 indepen (1)
great (5) 4:9 86:15 huge (2) 25:8
8:10 11:16,1821:4 happens (3) Hey (3) 37:1084:19 independence (3)
79:5 26:3,17 29:5 32:11 38:19 43:20 human (1) 17:6 25:9,9
Greater (1) happy (2) hide (3) 46:14 independent (1)
73:1 30:3 33:22 13:4,9 32:21 hundreds (1) 8:17
Griffin (7) hard (2) high (2) 15:21 independently (2)
3:22,244:3 6:2,6,8 29:746:15 20:13 34:18 hung (1) 12:1521:25
6:19 hate (2) highly (3) 14:18 indicated (1)
grip (1) 25:11 50:10 18:13 20:22 30:8 HVAC (1) 23:14
12:25 haunt (1) Hill (3) 38:11 individual (2)
group (13) 47:1 55:14,20,23 36:6,7
34:741:2057:5 head (1) hire (1) I individually (2)
58:1559:15,18,19 14:4 84:18 idea (19) 17:236:17
60:13 61:18,18 heading (1) hiring (1) 8:6 10:15,17 14:3 influence (1)
76:12,13,13 73:14 83:6 17:2030:735:10 37:17
groups (1) hear (7) historically (2) 35:17,21 37:846:7 informal (1)
45:15 16:1034:13 38:21 46:258:17 54:5,7,18,2067:24 18:13
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PULONE & STROMBERG, INC. 800-200-1252
CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTING & VIDEOCONFERENCING SERVICES
TRANSCRIPTION OF ITEM 15
informally (l) 52:8 74: 16 25: 13,15 28:4 45: 1 63:7,11,17,22 12:11
14:23 issue (13) 45:2246:647:14 65:2366:1867:6,8 light (2)
information (9) 8:9 11:15 13:2,17 47:16,23,2548:18 68:3,2469:10 8:2,2
6:237:78:199:12 15:6 24:9 46:23 48:23 49:3,10 70: 12, 17,21,22,25 liked (4)
9:14 14:3,1421:23 59:1262:2,365:2 64:20 65:8,17,25 72:1573:6,7,14 12:13 16:2,370:20
22:2 75:2377:19 73:2378:4,782:19 80:4,982:2384:15 likes (2)
initiated (l) issues (7) 83:22,24 85:1,3 16:3 29:20
70:8 3:87:238:123:18 kind (54) knowledge (2) limit (14)
input (32) 34:2038:1065:22 4:15:20 12:16 13:8 8:8 10:14 31:22,2332:974:17
12:13 13:7 14:23 item (9) 14:23 15:9 16:4 knowledgeable (l) 75:13,1976:8,10
16:15,1617:20,23 1:3 2:3,6 3:19 4:4,5 18:13 21:11,16 54:21 76:12,14,23,25
27:9 30:4,23,24 33:1876:585:15 22:2324:1831:13 knows (2) 77:4,5
32:1533:1536:20 items (3) 32:16,1734:17 44:1762:18 limiting (l)
37:2038:2541:15 54:1462:2477:9 35:7 39:21 41:20 Kris (2) 76:16
55:256:2257:16 it'd (l) 42:2343:18,19 27:1060:3 line (3)
57:1858:1263:13 18:2 44:12,13 47:20,20 3:1023:842:7
68:169:1770:14 it'll (2) 49:1652:24,25 L lines (2)
71:14,21 72:12,23 18:18,18 53:1859:5,10,11 land (l) 34:1235:15
76:16,20 I's (l) 60:13 61:8,20 62:8 39:23 list (4)
instance (l) 35:3 62:13 63:8,11 66:7 large (l) 18:366:674:14,15
15:7 68:469:10,1570:9 65:19 listen (2)
Institute (3) J 70:12 71:6 72:22 larger (l) 8:6 82:24
10:2121:325:18 Jennifer (3) 73:8 74:8 77:20 54:9 listening (2)
intangible (l) 3:224:36:19 81:2285:3,6 late (5) 31:1954:16
63:12 Jennifer's (2) kinds (2) 64:9,11,13,1469:10 little (18)
intended (1) 59:21 63: 1 8:1823:16 lawyer (1) 5:1418:1224:23
13:9 job (S) Kline (l) 74:1 29:3 30:25 31:3
intent (l) 43:16,1750:11 7:12 lay (l) 35:2341:13,15
26:1 72:14,19 KNAPP (2) 6:14 42:13,1454:9
intention (l) joint (l) 23:7 76:4 learned (l) 64:24 68:25 72:8
23:11 21:10 know (lll) 47:21 72:1984:2,13
intentioned (l) judges (2) 10:7 11:19 14:17 leave (2) local (l)
23:20 21:2322:1 15:5,7 17:25 19:1 84:4 85:8 77:19
interested (1) judgment (l) 20:1221:522:3 leery (3) logistic (l)
86:13 25:9 24:14,2125:10,12 41:2542:8 68:25 43:25
interesting (2) JUNE (l) 29:7,13,2430:1,10 left (l) logistics (l)
4:2 55:7 1:5 30:1432:333:3 56:20 5:15
interestingly (l) 34:6,17,17,18,19 legal (3) long (7)
55:7 K 34:2035:1,2,5,8,21 46:21 48:25 49:3 29:5,1633:6 38:7
interpreted (1) kangaroo (l) 35:24,24,2536:1,5 less-advertised (l) 62:464:376:10
42:5 14:18 36:2438:2139:12 46:20 longer (4)
interviews (l) keep (2) 39:19,23,2440:21 let's (7) 7:1726:2446:372:8
2:5 4:1 51:8 42:13,2543:7,14 4:20 16:134:19 long-term (l)
intrusion (l) keeps (l) 43:20,23,2444:4,8 45:1855:464:23 74:2
8:2 50:3 44:13,2145:12,18 79:23 look (32)
invest (l) Kelly (l) 46:347:1948:20 level (2) 2:13,246:15,21 7:1
43:6 7:12 49:2352:1453:3,7 34:385:11 11:22 14:2,2 19:6
involved (8) key (1) 53:21 54:10 55:6 levels (2) 19:21,2520:11
42:2349:1554:25 73:22 55:1056:11,23,23 26:1934:18 21:1222:11,15
57:1258:2059:18 kicks (l) 56:24 57:3,17,20 License (l) 24:12,1526:13
69:5,19 74:19 57:24,25 58:4,5,6 1:18 27:3 32:5,13 33:21
involvement (2) KILIAN (24) 61:6,20 62:8,12 life (l) 34:2341:11 48:3
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CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTING & VIDEOCONFERENCING SERVICES
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56:13 59:6 70:8 52:10,13,18,20 6:11 8:209:19,21 23:2324:1730:23 68:7,9,10,12,14,17
71:1 73:974:23 53:2,8,11,14,16,20 9:23 10:1,1111:9 37:1643:15,15 68:21,23 70:5 71:5
75:4 55:13,19,22,24 12:23 15:1,16,19 50:4,562:16,17,17 71:6,8,9,10,24,25
looked (3) 56:2,5,10 58: 13,24 16:717:14,16 65:7,11 72:9 77:23 72:17,18,2073:2,4
17:2122:1769:15 59:1660:664:9,14 18:22 20:25 27:8 meetings (16) 73:17,19,21,25
looking (7) 67:11,17,2268:7 27:10,19,2228:7 4:2,11,12,245:2,3 74:9 75:3,7,10,14
27:11 30:6 34:2 40:9 68:21 70:5 71:6,9 28:16,1934:15 37:2338:1,14,19 75: 16,17,20,22,24
57:481:23 82:6 71:24 72:20 73:2,4 37:8,2239:13,16 43:9,13,1350:1 75:25 76:2,3,7,21
looks (6) 73:17,21,2575:16 40:3,10 41:2,22 58:1677:11 77:3,8,13,15,25
13:1119:1624:14 79:8,12,15,17,19 42:17,1844:10 meeting's (1) 78:11,13,15,18,21
42:5 69:9 70:25 79:2280:1,3,6,8,18 45:8,13 48:24 19:18 78:2579:2,4,7,8,11
look-see (2) 80:20,2381:1,9,14 49:2051:12,15 member (309) 79:12,14,15,17,19
3: 11 5:20 81:1982:5,10,12 52:16,1953:13 3:3,188:7,13,21,25 79:22,2480:1,2,3,5
loose (2) 83:12,15,1884:4,7 54:3 56:7 59:23 9:3,5,11,18,20,22 80:6,7,8,16,18,19
65:1271:22 85:3,6,13 60:1,3,5,764:6,10 9:25 10:13,19,22 80:20,21,23,25
Los (3) main (1) 64:12,19,2165:24 10:24 11:3,5,8,10 81: 1,3,9,12,14,16
22:1531:14,14 26:10 66:2,4,9,12,17,19 12:19,20,2114:6 81:18,19,21,22
lose (1) maintaining (1) 66:22,24 67:4,21 17:15,17 18:24 82:3,5,10,11,12,14
74:11 25:6 68:6,8,13,15,19 19:5,8,12,14,17,21 83: 12,13,15,18,20
loss (2) major (9) 73:1,3,1674:6,24 19:24 20:2,5,14,16 83:23 84:4,6,7,8,15
49:7,10 2:14 3:8 7:2,6 16:21 75:1,12,1576:15 20:18,21,2321:1,7 84: 17,18,20,21,22
lot (25) 35:646:6 62:3,19 77:2,6,9,14,16 78:2 22:7,10,20,22 84:23,2485:1,3,6,9
8:4 14:5,5,7,8 16:15 making (3) 78:6,9,12,17,20,23 24:1025:727:9,13 85:13
17:2118:2,14,16 13:543:1962:13 79: 1,3,6,16,18,21 27:15,16,17,18,21 members (8)
29:12,14 30:22,24 MALE (4) 79:2381:11,17,25 27:23 28:3,6,8,10 12:2 17:4,423:13
33:1743:645:23 42:1651:13,14,21 82:4,6,13,15,19 28: 12, 15, 18,20,21 31:16,1736:16
48:1463:865:22 Mall (1) 83:1,5,8,10,1785:5 30:11 34:16 35:13 65:19
66:772:10,12,23 43:12 85:7,10,14 35:18,19,2036:8,9 memory (1)
84:25 manager (5) meal (1) 36:10,12,13,15,16 50:18
lousy (1) 7:1223:724:20 12:15 36:18,19,23,25 mention (1)
50:11 45:11 76:4 mean (38) 37:1,2,2139:1,14 61:22
love (2) mandate (4) 15: 16 19:2 35: 18,20 39:1740:441:1,3,6 mentioned (1)
21:2,6 40:20,2341:4,18 35:23,2336:2,6 41:742:10,17,19 66:8
mandatory (9) 37:1439:2140:1 44:11 45:3,9,14,21 mentioning (1)
M 31:834:645:19 41:1744:1945:5 46:547:9,15,17,24 24:20
machines (1) 51:23 53:22 67:2,7 48:1252:1553:4 48:6,16,1949:2,4 met (1)
38:12 73:1277:11 53:2155:6,14,23 49:13 50:8,13,17 23:13
Madam (3) Mark (6) 56:858:1462:22 50:2051:16,22,25 micromanage (1)
75:12,1582:19 3:17,23 11:928:17 63:1365:1267:13 52: 1,2,3,4,6,7,10 62:10
magnitude (1) 37:1966:4 67:14,1969:4,14 52: 11, 13,18,20,22 Miller (3)
74:19 Marketplace (2) 70:11 75:13,19 53:2,3,8,9,11,14,15 2:9 11:12,23
MAHONEY (113) 38:9,16 76:679:1580:24 53:16,18,2054:1 mind (4)
8:21,25 9:3,5,11,18 married (1) 83:18 54:2355:13,15,19 61:11 65:6 85:12,13
9:20,22,25 10:13 29:18 meant (1) 55:20,22,23,24,25 mini (2)
10:19,22,24 11:3,5 Marty (1) 18:13 56:2,3,5,6,8,10,11 70:21,21
11:8 12:19,2114:6 11:1 meet (3) 58: 13,23,24,25 minimal (1)
27: 13, 16, 18,21,23 master (1) 61:6,1263:25 59:16,17,2460:2,4 51:10
28:3,6,8,10,12,15 32:13 meeting (31) 60:6,8 64:9,11,13 minimize (1)
34:1635:18,20 matter (2) 1:4 4:4,9,23 5:8,11 64:14,15,16,17 70:10
36:9,12,15,18,23 26:3 62:3 5:12,23 10:111:13 65:1666:3,5,10,14 minutes (7)
37:1,2145:21 Mayor (124) 11:13 12:6 13:11 66: 18,20,23,25 17:22 32:8 76:5,17
51:16,2252:1,3,6 2:33:15,206:1,5,7 13:16 19:18,22 67:1,5,11,15,17,22 76:18,2083:3
Page 8
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CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTING & VIDEOCONFERENCING SERVICES
TRANSCRIPTION OF ITEM 15
misinformation (1) named (1) 4:145:88:2226:17 5:18 25:1629:1430:18
14:8 86:13 Northern (1) occasions (1) opinions (1)
missed (1) nature (1) 2:18 50:24 17:21
74:21 46:14 note (1) occur (1) opposed (2)
mistake (1) necessary (1) 49:19 65:15 13:6 32:2
33:12 63:2 notes (1) occurring (1) option (5)
mistakes (1) need (17) 72:7 4:17 2:4 3:7 4:6,20 48:24
47:21 7:17 15:6 18:14,16 noteworthy (1) odorless (1) optional (1)
misunderstandin... 39:952:15,24 25:17 38:12 73:12
84:9 53:17,2360:15 notice (16) odor-capture (1) options (3)
mixing (1) 61:565:1469:5,6,6 9:7,24 10:7,9,10 38:12 2:175:24 18:20
71:7 82:23 84:5 13:8 14:415:13 offering (1) order (2)
mixture (2) needing (1) 16:25 18:1625:20 13:7 5:1068:19
73:11 75:8 38:10 33:25 37:5,6 57:8 officials (1) original (3)
Mm-hmm (13) needs (3) 59:20 55:2 39:678:879:12
14:6 16:6 19:23 40:1964:2565:2 noticed (9) Oh (17) originally (3)
20:25 25:7 37:21 negative (1) 4:249:913:23 14:16 6:28:14 9:3,20 33:1435:1659:1
39:13,1644:10 72:12 17:18,20 18:18 11:15 13:15 15:4 Orrin (6)
59:2360:166:2 negatives (1) 30:22 33:23 15:1821:5,634:18 10:1227:1034:15
81:11 3:4 noticing (10) 42:549:1061:9 46:351:12,15
model (4) negotiate (1) 8:22,239:113:4,11 67:1 70:2475:20 Orrin's (1)
22:16,1728:11 7:5 15:25 36:23 40:24 okay (41) 11:11
31:14 negotiated (1) 65:2,13 3:164:199:3 10:24 ought (2)
money (7) 43:3 notification (1) 11:8 17:1419:17 65: 10 68:2
26:12,2132:633:7,8 neighborhood (2) 17:19 20:1625:14 28:3 outgrown (1)
43:649:8 8:345:15 notified (4) 28:15,15,2138:1 44:13
month (1) neighborhoods (1) 17:24 18:1 24:15,18 41:652:1,655:20 outlined (1)
62:17 15:14 notify (2) 55:2456:13 57:4 35:9
months (13) never (1) 18:4,6 61:2,14,1565:24 outreach (6)
12:10 16:4 18:15,19 51:3 no-questions (1) 70:373:13 74:9 32:1256:1561:14
29:15,15,1530:13 new (4) 3:21 77:2,6,1678:11,13 61:1563:10 64:3
31:7,1043:348:4 7:11 35:1245:468:3 number (5) 78:2579:6,780:1 overemphasize (1)
75:21 nice (2) 13:240:13 54:13 80:1481:1482:13 48:12
more-robust (1) 3:25 17:22 66:7,15 85:14 owner (2)
80:14 nickel (1) old (3) 7:5 16:14
motion (13) 40:15 0 45:10,1083:24 o'clock (1)
68:8,15 74:8,12,24 night (1) 0(1) olden (1) 43:22
75:16,1877:14 69:17 2:1 12:9
78:880:15,17,22 nightmare (1) objective (7) once (3) P
82:18 25:19 14:21,22 18:9,9 7:1544:546:18 P (1)
motion's (1) nine (4) 70:18,18,19 ones (4) 2:1
82:15 18:1529:1530:13 objectives (1) 26:11,1234:21 parameters (6)
motives (1) 31:6 13:23 58:21 53:12,19,20 54:2
46:13 nine-month (2) observe (2) one-page (1) 81:4,18 .
move (1) 2:253:11 50:2 65:21 7:22 parcel (1)
15:11 noble (1) observed (1) open (9) 38:20
moving (1) 23:11 17:4 4:12,1621:1724:5 park (2)
73:2 noise (2) observers (1) 24:1534:2043:20 43:1263:20
8:114:12 17:5 45:1958:11 parking (4)
N nominal (1) obvious (2) openness (2) 8:114:1229:939:20
N (2) 7:21 7:238:1 29:25 36:21 Parrott (3)
2:1,1 normal (4) obviously (1) opinion (3) 1:1686:6,20
.
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part (17) PIASECKI (54) plans (3) 77:4 43:1
12:25 14:1024:22 2:76:178:249:1,4,6 26:13 48:4 50:24 pretty (4) program (l)
54:1857:2258:2 9:12 10:2,18,20,23 play (l) 8:11 21:13 39:23,24 56:15
58:2071:2572:1 10:25 11:4,6 13:21 25:5 preview (4) project (17)
72:22,2373:15,22 14:7 15:2,18 16:6 please (4) 4:235:226:1562:25 8:15 12:1115:22
77:1278:2479:3 16:20 17:25 18:23 4:8,15,1682:17 pre-design (l) 16:10,1217:10
81:6 19:4,7,11,13,15,20 point (10) 5:19 20:823:1530:12
participating (l) 19:2320:1,4,6,17 8:627:529:1736:21 pre-review (10) 32:11 39:2440:2
7:13 20:19,22,2421:6 36:2248:5 50:25 2:3,124:75:1,7,11 42:6 48:20 49: 11
participation (l) 21:20 22:9,14,21 58:1468:1970:19 9:2421:2465:7,10 62:474:19
73:3 23:2 25:3,8,14 28:5 pointed (l) primarily (l) projects (4)
particular (3) 28:9,11,1449:19 59:3 49:12 20:946:655:11 56:4
3:65:1762:24 50:12,14,18,22 policy (3) primary (2) property (4)
parties (2) pick (l) 7:9 68: 1 85: 11 70:18,19 7:534:237:1838:2
60:11 86:12 44:22 political (l) prior (2) proponent (3)
passed (l) picked (l) 59:12 25:23 49:6 29:2437:1061:4
6:16 34:4 politics (l) proactive (l) proposal (5)
pay (4) piece (l) 59:6 49:6 4:10,195:1251:20 ~
4:21 5:1940:2454:9 39:23 portion (2) probably (10) 62:25
paying (l) place (5) 7: 15 20:7 7:22 18: 14,16,19 proposals (2)
16:24 5:7,236:18,1949:23 position (4) 31:646:265:682:1 2:4,14
people (27) plan (16) 25:21 26:6 46:24,25 82:283:10 proposed (l)
9:14 11:25 14:830:7 7:8,25 16:16,18 positive (l) problem (5) 46:8
31:2,933:18,25 26:1832:1337:15 38:10 36:1539:848:11,12 prospective (l)
34:3 35:24 37:4,6 38:761:23,2462:5 possible (l) 48:25 7:6
39:4,1051:23 62:563:17,1864:4 51:9 problems (3) proud (l)
53:22,2354:10 65:14 post (l) 35:6,7 56:21 60:20
57:2458:1,659:24 Planners (2) 9:6 proceeding (l) provide (l)
62:1865:466:10 10:21 21:3 posting (2) 82:20 48:9
67:1072:15 planning (83) 10:3 15:12 proceedings (3) providing (l)
people's (l) 2:9,12,16,193:10 potential (2) 82:25 86:7,12 8:18
29:14 4:4 5:3,6,12 6:8 26:24 35:7 process (56) public (74)
percent (l) 7:198:7,13 10:16 Powell's (l) 3:96:157:1,13 10:8 4:9,12,13,16,167:16
61:24 11:2,1412:3,4,5,12 50:10 14:10,16,2415:10 13:7,24,2523:14
perception (2) 13:13 14:14 17:17 powerful (l) 15:12 16:2,5,17,19 23:1629:1,12,16
3:4 17:1 18:4,25 19:1021:2 17:8 16:23 17:13 18:14 30:2,17,22 32:20
perform (l) 21:9 22:25 24:24 precede (l) 18:25 19:9 24:23 33:1536:11,20
2:22 25:1829:2230:23 5:12 26:1729:630:10 37:12,1538:2,17
period (5) 31:1,1634:24 prejudicing (l) 33:2 35:6 36:2 38:19,2540:5,14
2:2531:650:2565:1 35:14 37:3,6 38:14 8:15 40:20,2341:4,18 40:18,2341:10
67:8 39:7,8 42:20 43:5 prep (2) 43:1,2144:6,13,14 48:24,2549:14,15
person (7) 43:1544:1649:17 32:774:17 44:15,2447:5 49:21 50:4,4,5,9,23
12:4,8,9 33:7 39:6 51:152:14,2353:6 present (4) 49:16,2356:20 50:23 53:23 54:8
72:1386:10 53:2454:1955:2 26:1832:843:2 57:2160:1263:4 55:9 56:20,22,25
personally (l) 57:658:1859:2,5,7 48:13 64:5 67:2 68:3 69:6 57:3,11,1858:9,12
31:5 60:12,2262:11,20 presentation (2) 70:10,22 71:15,16 58:1661:1462:6
Peter (l) 63:564:2365:1,3,5 54: 16,17 72:9,13,1680:14 63:13 65:19 68:1
50:10 65:2066:167:16 presentations (l) processes (2) 69:5,17,18 70:14
phase (3) 69:972:11 73:11 41:14 6:1830:3 71:1,14 72:23 73:3
6:23 7:4 74:22 74:1375:576:19 pressure (l) produced (2) 76:15,2077:21,22
phone (l) 77:1779:2480:11 45:23 23:21,21 77:22 81:6
44:22 81:2384:11,13 presume (l) professional (l) publicly (l)
.
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CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTING & VIDEOCONFERENCING SERVICES
TRANSCRIPTION OF ITEM 15
37:20 34:21 refresh (1) 48:2 S
public's (2) range (1) 50:18 review (15) S (4)
36:22 59:20 2:17 refused (4) 2:5,21 3:9,124:7,8 1:162:186:6,20
public-input (3) reach (1) 40:15,15,1643:12 6:22 7: 19 10:6 Sacramento (2)
74:21 76:23 80:14 43:3 regarding (4) 22:18,2462:21 10:21,23
public-policy (1) reaction (3) 18:2443:745:12 63:2 65:5 70:21 safety (1)
59:11 9:15 13:1 23:22 49:8 reviewed (1) 62:22
pull (1) read (1) regular (4) 62:6 Sand (3)
61:21 83:25 1:412:5 19:840:7 rework (1) 55:14,20,23
purpose (2) reading (1) reiterate (1) 64:24 Sandoval (119)
26:5 27:4 34:17 74:20 rezone (1) 2:33:15,206:1,5,7
put (10) ready (2) reiterating (1) 62:2 6:11 8:20 9:19,21
12:1014:1920:13 7:16 63:3 79:21 rid (2) 9:23 10:1,1111:9
25:11,2126:5 real (3) remember (7) 47:4,5 12:23 15:1,16,19
30:1231:2238:11 2:8,841:22 11:3 12:19 13:15 right (47) 16:7 17:14,16
69:1 reality (2) 23:8 46:2 59:3 9:11,25 18:12,22 18:22 20:25 27:8
putting (5) 19:1725:6 60:17 19:7,20 20:21 27:10,19,2228:7
26:12,2138:3,11 realize (1) remodeling (1) 22:13 23:9 24:7,20 28:16,1934:15
45:22 31:18 32:2 28:1,3,630:333:10 37:8,2239:13,16
really (35) repeat (2) 33:1236:11,18 40:3,1041:2,22
Q 8:14 14:19 15:6,7 74:2580:17 40:341:145:24,24 42:1844:1045:8
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T RAN S C RIP T ION
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Next item is a pre-review
option for development proposals for the Environmental
Review Committee to conducts some early interviews.
And Steve, I believe this would be your item.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
Yeah.
Real -- real briefly, back in April, you'll
recall that Chairman Miller of the Planning Commission
came before the Council and suggested that or asked the
Council to allow him to have a discussion with the
Planning Commission about so-called pre-review or early
look, whatever you want to call it, at development
applications or major development proposals, and -- and
you authorized that.
We went back to the Planning Commission with a
range of options and talked about a couple of examples
that we were able to find in Northern California where
this is being done; and the Planning Commission then
recommended to you, is now recommending to you, that you
utilize the existing Environmental Review Committee to
perform this role.
I think the
in summary, I think they felt
that -- and -- and -- and on top of that, that you look
at it for a nine-month period and see how it's working.
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CUPERTINO CITY COUNCIL JUNE 2, 2008 ITEM 15
But I -- I think they felt that you get most of
the benefits of it with just one Commissioner and one
Council member, with the smallest amount of the
negatives; that is, the perception, if you go to one of
the other extremes, that either the Councilor
Commission have committed themselves to a particular
development option. They can still advise the
applicants of major deal breakers or issues in the
community in this early review process.
So bottom line, Planning Commission is
recommend~ng approval of this for a nine-month look-see,
utilizing the Environmental Review Committee to conduct
them.
Any questions?
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Questions on this?
No questions, okay, discussion, then.
Mark?
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: We don't have any
speaker cards on this item?
MAYOR SANDOVAL: We do, actually.
Sorry.
The
whole no-questions thing threw me off completely.
Jennifer Griffin. Come on up.
Thank you, Mark.
MS. GRIFFIN: Good evening, City Council.
I just got a -- some nice tea; hopefully it has
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caffeine in it. Kind of keep me awake here. Even
though your meetings are always very interesting.
I'm Jennifer Griffin, and I actually watched
this item go through the Planning Commission meeting,
and I just had a couple of questions about this item.
If the City decides to adopt this option to
have the Environmental Review Committee do a pre-review
for a developmental review, please make sure that the
public is aware that these types of meeting is happening
for that specific development proposal.
I'm assuming that these meetings would be
12 public, because the ER -- ERC meetings are usually open
13 to the publici and I'm assuming they would be at the
14 normal time, which is 4:30 on Wednesday or ThursdaYi but
15 please make sure that the -- if they are going to be
16 open to the public, please make sure that the public is
17 aware that they are occurring.
18 I had a couple of questions.
19 If the development proposal chooses -- okay,
20 let's say a developer does choose to take this option,
21 and I think someone said they would pay a $500 fee if
22 they were going to do this, and they decide to have this
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preview.
The ERC would conduct this meeting.
I'm
assuming that those meet~ngs would be noticed.
Also, if the developer chooses to take this
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avenue and have a pre-review, would there still be the
traditional, additional ERC meetings and design-review
meetings before it goes to Planning Commission and City
Council?
I think there was some discussion about this in
the Planning Commission; like if they do do this
pre-review at the ERC, would this take the place of the
traditional ERC meeting that happened in the normal
sequence of events? That was one question I had.
And then just the order of things.
If the
developer decides to do the pre-review meeting, this
meeting would precede the proposal going to the Planning
Commission and ultimately to the City Council.
I'm just a little bit -- I think I understand
the logistics of this, but I I understand the reason
why they were having the ERC do it, and it is at the
discretion of a particular developer to do this; they're
not required to do it, because obviously $500 is a -- a
fee that they would have to pay for this pre-design or
kind of a look-see; but I just wanted to be sure about
the sequence of events.
I would be a bit concerned if this preview at
the ERC took the place of the traditional ERC meeting.
Because I think they are completely different options.
My --
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MAYOR SANDOVAL: (Unintelligible) your time.
MS. GRIFFIN: Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah.
And my understanding is that they should
MAYOR SANDOVAL: (Unintelligible) .
MS. GRIFFIN: have ERC, DRC
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Thank you.
MS. GRIFFIN:
Planning Commission, City
9 Council.
10 Thank you.
11 MAYOR SANDOVAL:
So Steve, good -- good
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What does the $500 fee get you?
And then as I
if you could layout what an
application process would look like, if this preview
were passed by the Council.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
It -- it does not take the
place of any of the other processes that are -- that are
in place; and-- and the speaker, Jennifer Griffin, is
correct; they're completely different functions
envisioned with the early look versus the environmental
review.
In fact, the applicant, at the early-look
phase, has no environmental information to bring to the
ERC and to do an evaluation of the environmental.
Then your question about what -- how do -- what
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1 is the process and what does it look like.
2 Every applicant -- every major development
3 application goes through what I call a confidential
4 phase; and that's usually where they're doing their due
5 diligence, to either negotiate with the property owner
6 or prospective tenant, major tenant; and they're talking
7 to us to get zoning information, and they're trying to
8 find out the basics: what does the general plan allow,
9 what are the policy structures that apply in this area.
10 So we spend a quite a bit of time advising
11 applicants; and -- and in fact, with our new Economic
12 Development Manager, Kelly Kline, she's been
13 participating in that early -- early process as well;
14 which has been very helpful, by the way.
15 Once they get out of that portion and they're
16 ready now to go public, at least they -- they -- they
17 don't need to hold it in confidence any longer, then
18 they would be eligible to come before the Environmental
19 Review Committee under the Planning Commission's
20 recommendation.
21 Now the $500 is only a nominal amount to cover
22 we'll probably have to do a one-page summary what
23 in terms of some of the obvious issues that would be
24 faced; for example, if this was the Cupertino Village
25 expansion plan that was coming forward, some of the
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obvious issues would be parking, traffic, noise
attenuation, light -- attenuating any light intrusion
into the neighborhood.
But they may not get a whole lot more than
that, because it's a back-of-napkin sketch.
It's an
idea at this point. And they would listen to the the
Planning Commissioner and Council member who might say,
based on their history and -- and -- and their knowledge
of the community, that there may be another issue of --
of great consequence. Trails or whatever it might be.
And -- and pretty much, that's it.
They --
they only get -- it would be very important for the
Planning Commissioner and Council member not to commit
themselves; not to say, "Oh, I really support this
project"; because they would be prejudicing themselves
from -- from the future hearings that they would be
asked to be in an independent role on. So they would
only be providing just basic, deal-breaker kinds of
information.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Questions?
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
Yeah, so -- so what
what is -- what's the normal noticing on ERC, and
what
what do you see as the noticing on --
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: We--
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
this?
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DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
-- we don't do noticing.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Oh, okay.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: We only --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: (Unintelligible).
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
-- post the agendas. We
don't do a separate notice.
There's been suggestions that it should be
fully noticed.
You run into the risk then of having a
hearing before the hearing. You have no
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
Right.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
-- information to answer
any questions, and yet
and then you may have -- also
have people commenting on it with no information, and
just -- it just becomes a gut reaction to, "I don't like
growth," or, "I don't like development," or whatever it
might be.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: And--
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Wait, excuse
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Oh.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Can I ask a follow-up?
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
Yeah, sure.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Steve, did you -- did you say
there would be no notice, then, on the pre-review
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
Right.
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MAYOR SANDOVAL: meeting?
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: That -- that's correct.
There's only the posting of the agenda.
And my understanding is that's how the other
cities are doing it as well. One city does it through
their Site and Architectural Review Committee.
I don't
know if they do a notice, if they have a formal -- if
they combine it with the site architectural process,
there may be a notice; but otherwise, no, there would
not be a separate notice.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Thank you.
Orrin.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
So did this have -- to
your knowledge, or -- or the -- has this come up from
the developers, that think this is a good idea, or it's
the -- came directly from the Planning Commission, that
thought it was a good idea --
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: I
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
-- or
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
-- believe that at the
Planners Institute, at the conference in Sacramento
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Ah.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
-- Sacramento
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- that there -- there was
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a session, and the -- and Marty had talked to a couple
of other Planning Commissioners
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
I remember
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
-- about why
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
-- that now.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
-- how things work in their
community.
Okay.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Mark?
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
I was just going to
add something to Orrin's question.
I guess Commissioner Miller was in a different
meeting than me, but I was in one meeting where it was
planning commissioners and staff arguing about every
issue that came up; and this one city said, nOh, we
don't have those fights; it works great in our
(unintelligible)"; and, "We don't have those fights; it
works great in ours"; and so I cornered (unintelligible)
the end, I wanted to know why they were doing so well
and everybody wasn't; and they said -- and -- and -- and
I guess they -- they had the -- the early work was their
-- or first look, I think was their term; and
Commissioner Miller heard a different thing from someone
24 else.
25
And I think the people he talked to had formed
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1 a -- I'm not sure of the details, but I think they had a
2 different committee of -- of Council members and
3 Planning Commissioners, or all or both of them or
4 something; and the. person I talked to was the Planning
5 Commission, and they just had a regular Planning
6 Commission meeting, but that came up as a -- as a sort
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And they said that -- and the person I talked
to was a staff person who said that in the olden days,
they were aggravated because they'd put six months of
their life into a project, then it would get in front of
the Planning Commission or the Council and get shot
down; and they liked having the -- the early input.
So I guess both of us had heard about it
independently and brought it up at -- at at a meal,
to -- to Steve; and kind of -- that sort of spurred the
discussion.
The question was can -- can we do something
So that's where it --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: No, I remember that --
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: came from.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: discussion now.
Thanks.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Any other questions?
So Steve, how does this -- I -- I guess I'm
still trying to get a grip on this, because part of what
better.
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1 I think the reaction from our community is is, and I've
2 certainly gotten a number of emails on this issue today,
3 saying, "This is one way that the City Council is trying
4 to then hide development," because we're not noticing
5 the ERC, and, "It's one more step into making sure that
6 an application actually gets approved, as opposed to
7 offering public input on it."
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And -- and I
and I kind of took notice with
9 that, because I think this is not intended to hide
10 anything, but it's not -- it's certainly not
if we're
11 not noticing the meeting, then it looks like it could be
12 trying to get something slipped under the radar.
13 And -- and then the -- the -- both the Planning
14 Commission and Council get tasked with the comments of,
15 nOh, you were for this all along; remember that ERC
16 meeting you were at where you discussed X, Y and Z
17 issue."
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So -- so I guess that's one of the things that
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I'd like the staff -- you ~s staff to address, how
how how do you address that?
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
Well, not very well,
because you -- it's a two-edge sword.
If you noticed -- one -- one of the objectives
of public hearings is that the applicant expects a fair
and impartial hearing, the public expects a fair and
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impartial hearing.
In an early look or a first look, there -- you
have no information.
It may be an idea in somebody's
head. And you may -- if you
if you go out and notice
it, yeah, it will cost you a lot -- lot more time.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Mm-hmm.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
You'll have a lot of
misinformation, a lot of stuff that people can't
answer.
And part of the reason we have the process we
have now is that we make applicants do traffic studies,
parking studies, noise studies, you
you-name-it
studies; and then they go to ERC and then they go to the
Planning Commission with all the information.
So it -- it is -- it is difficult to do this
with a -- a noticed process.
Also, the applicant then feels like, you know,
"Was this a kangaroo court? Did I get hung before the
evidence was really put forth? Is this a fair and
impartial?"
So it depends on what your objective is. If
22 your objective is to give them the benefit of some early
23 input -- and I can tell you this kind of informally goes
24 on at ERC now, but it's later in the process, not
25 early. Because --
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MAYOR SANDOVAL:
(Unintelligible) .
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
-- Commissioners and
Council, the -- the -- the representative from each,
usually will say, nOh, by the way, when you bring this
back to us," if you're continuing it, you know, "you
really need to -- to zero in on that traffic issue," for
instance.
Or, you -- you know, "We're really concerned
about the impact on the trees."
And -- and you kind of do this, but it's later
in the process.
All the suggestion here is just move it early
in the process; same posting of -- of the agendas, but
not a -- a separate notice going out, so the applicant
and neighborhoods can get their fair and impartial
hearing.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
I mean, it is definitely a
double-edged sword, it seems
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Oh, yeah.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: to me, because it -- it
doesn't help when somebody in the community spends
hundreds of thousands of dollars, only to have their
project completely altered or even voted -- voted down,
when it comes to any voting body.
I guess the other question I would ask is, is
there any way to change the noticing of this -- well,
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DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Mm-hmm.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: where the developer really
went out and -- actually three developers worked in
tandem, to talk to the community about what they'd like
to see on their project, and hear from the community
about what the community would like to see on -- on
their project.
Now we haven't got an application yet from the
owner of the Tantau Stevens Creek site, but I'm hoping
that they're taking some of that input or a lot of that
input into account and developing that into their plan.
So -- so how does that process differ? Because
that's a more applicant-run community-focused plan or
process.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
Yeah, and that's -- that's
another good alternative; and that would apply to major
developments, not something smaller.
The beauty of that process is, first of all,
the applicants paying the freight on it. There is
notice to the community. And there -- there's no
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1 perception that the Councilor Commissioners are in
2 are individually committing yourselves to anything.
3 In fact, several Commissioners and Council
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members came to those community members and observed,
only -- came in as observers, and you had that still the
independence of you didn't say anything, you didn't
commit one way or the other; and -- and that -- I think
that's very powerful.
So you can use that more; you can -- you can
use it even on a smaller project scale if you want to;
because you already want the applican~s to go out and
contact the community; so you could do it through that
process as well. That's not a bad way to do it.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Okay. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Can I ask some questions?
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Sure.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
During the Planning
Commission hearing, what I noticed is that -- I'm not
sure how much notification you gave to developers, to
get their input about this idea; and I noticed that
there was a lot of diverse opinions, because we looked
at the minutes, that it would have been nice to get
23 their input; and I was just curious that -- were they
24 notified, or it was just --
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They weren't.
I don't know
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
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who we would have notified.
There -- there's a big
developer community, and I -- it'd take a lot of time to
develop that list, but we could. We could do that and
go back to Planning Commission and notify the world.
Then the question would be would you want to
then notify the community as well, to weigh in; and that
was also brought up.
Your choice, again, it -- it depends what your
objective is.
If your objective is simply, "No, no,
this is a communication between a couple of
decisionmakers and the applicants, so that we can get
them on the right track, that's a little -- and it's
kind of informal, it's not meant to be a highly
formalized process," then you probably don't need a lot
of -- and you're going to evaluate it in nine months,
probably don't need a lot of notice.
On the other hand, if -- if you -- if you want
to go the -- the noticed route, it'll take -- it'll
probably take three or four months to get through all
the options and have all the debate about what's the
best way to do this, if --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Right.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- at all.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: And then regarding the
process, the Planning Commission suggested that, you
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1 know, the ERC; so are you saying that it's going to go
2 to the ERC -- I mean, it -- it -- it's not really ERC,
3 but the committee of the ERC
4 DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Yes.
5 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: and they'll have the
6 first look. And then --
7 DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Right.
8 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- go through the regular
9 process through the City staff, and then go through the
10 ERC, Planning Commission. and
11 DIRECTOR PIASECKI: That's correct.
12 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- the City Council.
13 DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Yeah, so
14 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: So it's just
15 DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- the ERC will have two --
16 two looks.
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COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Okay, so in reality, the
18 first ERC meeting's not really an ERC meeting. It's
19 really
20 DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Right.
21 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- a first look.
22 And then the second ERC meeting
23 DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Mm-hmm.
24 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- is really what the ERC
25 is (unintelligible) look at --
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DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Yeah, I --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: during the
environmental (unintelligible)
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: So--
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- as well.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: So imagine your ERC
agenda. You would have a portion of the agenda
evaluating the environmental impacts of project A, Band
C; and then you'd have first-look projects, and you
might have one or two of those; and then they would
the applicant would come forward in the first look and
say, you know, "I'm Canyon Heights Academy, and I want
to put a high school out off Stevens Canyon Road"; and
and Council member could
then the Commissioner and
respond to that concept.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Okay.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: And--
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: And then
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- and that's just an
example, because that was --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Right.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- highly
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Of course.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- controversial.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Mm-hmm.
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COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Of course.
And one thing I love as a Planning
Commissioner, that we go to these Planners Institute and
we come up with all these great ideas, and then Steve
will say, "Oh," you know.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Oh, I love that too.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Yeah.
But one other thing that I want to address is
is that as a Planning Commissioner, we got to have some
joint sessions with the City Council, or sometimes the
11 City Council will just have their own kind of like first
12 look as well too. And other cities within our county
13 does that, and it has been working pretty well, and we
14 have applied that before.
15 I think one of the difference what we did
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weren't televised, and they weren't open and
transparent. Maybe that might be another alternative
that we can consider tonight.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: And -- and the downside
that you the risk that you run is that it appears
that you're holding a hearing before the hearing. You
don't have the information.
You're the judges, and then
you're doing a pre-review of the case before you've
before you can then stand back independently later on
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and be the judges, with all the facts and all the
information.
I -- you know, I -- I think that -- that
anything can work, and we can try anything you like, but
I think that still has the appearance that the
Commission and/or Council --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
It will be the same
thing --
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- may be committing --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- if you had a first
look on the ERC; and we do have other cities that also
do it, even within this county, that's currently doing
it right now.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
I'm aware of the -- the
first look that we evaluated here was the Los Gatos
model, which was a separate committee.
We looked at a Santa Rosa model, which was the
Site and Architectural Review Committee.
of cities --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Believe--
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- that do --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- Campbell does that
I'm not aware
too, where you used to work, where they kind of have a
study session review it, then -- then they send it off
to the Planning Commission, and then -- and then goes to
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DIRECTOR PIASECKI: They -- they may have
changed that approach from when I was there. When I was
there, they did it more or less like we did it here;
they -- they would go off and do a separate
study-session format off site.
CITY MANAGER KNAPP:
I think the thing to
remember here, in -- in this line of discussion, is that
we're not exactly like other communities right now, in
that we're sort of working ourselves out of a hole.
I think that there was noble intention, and I
think there was some good work that was done when we had
Council members who met early on with developers and
indicated that there were public benefits that were
going to be expected from the project, and these were
the kinds of public benefits that were expected and that
these were the things that were going to be very
difficult to accomplish and these were the issues that
had to have special attention.
I think that was well intentioned; I think it
But it also produced a
produced some good results.
a
very strong reaction, an expectation, not just that they
were meeting off site and not televised, I think it was
deeper than that, that there was discussion that it
seemed to be that the Council was facilitating
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development; and -- and that I think you're still
working yourself out of that hole.
I think the Council has been fastidious, this
Council especially, about being completely transparent
and having everything done out in the open.
But I think
there's baggage; and so comparing us with the way
another city does it right now, not taking into account
that hole that we're in, I -- I think is a -- could be a
hot issue.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: And what I'm suggesting
is that -- and I understand; thank you, Dave, for
bringing that up; is that whatever first look that if
we do decide to even go that direction, is that those
first looks will be, you know, televised; those first
look will be open and transparent and be notified.
I -- I think that the -- I wasn't aware that
the -- the first ERC meeting was not going to be
notified, and that really concerns me, and that kind of
goes back to the hole that -- that we're trying to dig
out right now, that ERC manager is mentioning about.
So I'm trying to think that, you know, I -- I
think part of the frustration, again, is how can we make
the process a little bit more smoother for both the
community, City Council, the Planning Commission, as
well as staff; and I think that there's different
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(unintelligible) quarters that -- that have different
frustrations.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
Just a commentary; I --
I've -- I've had many conversations with -- with Chuck,
and he's talked about the quasi-judicial role you play,
and and maintaining that appearance and reality --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Mm-hmm.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- of indepen -- of
independence and independence of judgment.
I don't know, Chuck, if you have any feelings
about how this might work at the site -- I hate to put
you on the spot, because I know you feel
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: No, I'm not on the spot.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Okay.
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: I just have a
different opinion about it is all.
It's noteworthy that this was -- this was
developed at the Planning Institute, because it -- it
really is a nightmare for attorneys; if you -- whether
you notice or not, you create a hearing before a hearing
that causes the decisionmaker to be put in the position
of being challenged, because they're biased as a result
of a prior hearing.
take.
So those are the risks you have to
Now I suspect whatever you adopt will be
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1 followed in good faith, and the intent of it will be
2 followed for the first year or two; but after a while,
3 no matter what happens, there will be an attempt by
4 someone in the development community to use it for some
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other purpose, maybe even inadvertently, that will put a
Council into a position like we were a few years ago.
So I take this as being something that has
certain disadvantages.
Now what are the advantages to adopting it?
The main advantage, as far as I can see, is to the
developing community, because they're the ones that are
putting up the money; they're the ones that want an
early look, so that they can couch their -- their plans
in terms of of not having it turned down.
I'm' not sure what the advantages to the City
itself are, or certainly to the citizens; because what
happens is that in the normal process, they take their
best shot, they present their -- their plan; it's worked
over at several different levels, and ultimately the
Council decides.
And they do have to take some risk in
-- in putting up money to do that. And I'm not sure
that that's a disadvantage to the City or to the City
Council.
It does create the potential of longer
hearings, but maybe that -- and -- and discussions of
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other alternatives.
So from my standpoint, it's something that you
should look at very carefully before you decide to do
it; because ultimately, it will be used for a purpose
that it was unintended to be used for, at some point, in
my view.
So do what you want to do.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Chuck.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Thanks for your input.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Kris or Orrin.
I'm looking at this side of the table mostly,
but anything over here? Any comments to weigh in on?
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Well, there was some
comment
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: (Unintelligible)--
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: -- made earlier
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: questions.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
was -- yeah.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: No, I just want to make sure
I'm not
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Well, I have a --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- ignoring them.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: -- question.
I -- or -- or a follow-up.
It -- there was some either comment made about
I --
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1 it being televised. It wouldn't be televised, right?
2 FEMALE SPEAKER: (Unintelligible) .
3 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Right. Okay.
4 CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: The
5 DIRECTOR PIASECKI: ERC is not televised.
6 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Right.
7
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Yeah.
8 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: And their --
9 DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Depends on what --
10 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: And just --
II DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- model you follow.
12 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: And conceptually, this
13 would not be televised.
14 DIRECTOR PIASECKI: Correct.
15 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Okay. Okay.
16 MAYOR SANDOVAL: Any other questions.
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Mark?
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Comments?
19 MAYOR SANDOVAL: Yeah.
20 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Go.
21 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Okay.
22 Sorry. About half an hour ago, there were no
23 questions, and -- and my first comment was there was a
24 card, so just wonder if we're done with questions.
25 So I was troubled by the fact that we only had
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one speaker from the public on this.
And my view of this, when I heard it, was a
little different than Chuck's.
My view is that there
is
4 an advantage for the City and the citizens.
5 What happens here is we go through this long,
6 drawn-out process; and then by the time something gets
7 to the Council, you know, the Council -- it's hard for
8 the Council to do much to it other than turn it down or
9 argue over a few parking spots or something; and --
10 and -- and that concerns me.
11 The other thing that concerns me is there's a
12 lot of distrust from the public because the developer
13 is, you know, in the dark room with the -- back room
14 with the staff, from a lot of people's opinion, for
15 three months or six months or nine months or however
16 long, before the public even gets a glimpse of it.
17 At that point, both the staff and the developer
18 are somewhat married to what they've come out with. And
19 -- and -- and when that's a good thing and the community
20 likes it and we like it, then that's good. But when
21 it's something that the community or the Councilor the
22 Planning Commission don't like, then -- then that's a
23 bad thing.
24 So as you all know, I'm the big proponent for
25 openness in government here; and we did an experiment
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1 with Vallco, and we don't know the results of that yet.
2 Hopefully they'll be good.
But at least the public
3 right now seems to be happy with that processes, because
4 they got to have some input.
5 So I -- I have some so -- so what I'm
6 looking for is to get -- I -- I I think it seemed
7 like it was a good idea, and the people that used it
8 spoke highly of it, so I think it's worth trying to
9 think about is there a better way that we can facilitate
10 this process, so that, you know, it's not Steve or a
11 staff member of his that's trying to guess what all of
12 us are thinking and put this into a --.into a project,
13 and -- and nine months down the road, all of a sudden,
14 we go, "Ha, you didn't know we were thinking, Steve; we
15 totally disagree with you," and -- and we totally blow
16 something out of the water.
17 Or the public shows up, and they have a very
18 different opinion than what -- than than what Steve
19 thought they were going to have; or or whoever was --
20 was working with them.
21 So -- how -- however, it didn't -- it didn't
22 really get noticed, and there wasn't a lot of public
23 input at the Planning Commission meeting, if you all
24 watched that; and we don't have a lot of input here, but
25 at least we -- we had the advantage of a little more
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time; and after the Planning Commission said something,
I got some emai1s, and I tried to talk to some people;
so we -- I get an advantage of a little more time to
think about it than they did.
I actually, personally, I -- I like the trial
I'd probably rather it be a year than nine
period.
months.
I actually think it should be mandatory rather
than voluntary, so we get enough people in the system
over that 12 months that we can see if it was a good or
a bad thing.
And I -- I don't like it going to the ERC.
And -- and and -- and this is kind of where
I struggle.
There's a model that Los -- Los Gatos, I
think, is using, that would have -- in our case, it
would be two Council members, two Planning Commission
members and two staff; and -- and
and at first, I
thought that was a good thing; but I realize, in
listening to a couple of the questions my -- that you've
all talked about up here, maybe a better answer might be
to have it go before the Council, and then we have --
but -- but only for -- also, they didn't put any limit
on it.
I'd like to see some limit, like it's at least
a -- 20,000 square foot of building space, or a four-lot
subdivision, or something big enough that when it
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triggers that, it's worth taking up the time of the
Council, as opposed to it's somebody remodeling their,
you know, house.
I'd also like to see it not take staff time.
If it's an early look, then I don't want to see staff
spend time and money on it, so it triggers a big fee or
anything; I'd rather see it be, in fact, no prep from
staff, and maybe they get 10 minutes to present, and we
limit the amount of time we're willing to talk on it.
And -- and -- and the things we could do is we
could say, "Hey, this is a big project, like a Vallco.
We want you to go out and do a community outreach." Or,
"You want to look at a master plan; we want you to bring
that back."
Or we may just give them some input.
I think
we can kind of decide what we think is appropriate.
But I'd kind of like to see -- I -- I
I see
I see this as
it as something very different.
as --
as a way to -- some of the -- the comments
(unintelligible) from the public, where they think we're
trying to hide something from them.
You heard that comments tonight of does this --
do they get out of doing something different.
Well, I don't think they get out of doing
anything different.
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I think it could be an advantage to the
developer, because maybe they get through the process
quicker, because they know what everybody wants; but
that's good for the City too.
If -- if we get Vallco rebuilt in half the
time, versus it drags out for too long and they run out
of money and they sell it to the next person, who runs
out of time and runs out of money, that's not good for
the City or the citizens.
So if we can expedite the right answer, that's
a good thing.
Expediting the wrong answer is certainly
a mistake. But if we can get to the right answer
quicker, I think that would be good.
So I -- I'm -- I was originally going to argue
we should -- we should wait and get more public input;
but I'm troubled that we -- that we have virtually none,
where we had a lot on the budget; and I think this is an
important item for our City, and I think the people
would like to weigh in earlier on; and so I think it
would be worth taking an experiment to take an early
look.
But -- but I -- I'm not -- I'm not happy with
the ERC thing.
It's not televised, it's not noticed.
If it were to show up as something on the Council
agenda, enough people will just notice it automatically,
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like they did with the budget tonight; they go, "Woops,
you're -- you guys are looking at the Sims property"; a
bunch of people showed up.
it would be picked up.
So like I said, I would be in favor of it
So at least at that level,
being, you know, mandatory; maybe a 12-month trial,
and -- and -- and we could do a separate group, or we
could just bring it in front of the -- in front of the
-- the -- the Council.
I think we did a -- a good experiment with
Vallco. Maybe we should consider something along those
lines.
And I'd like to hear what the rest of you
think.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Orrin?
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Yeah, I guess, you
know, I'm going in this thing, you know, kind of reading
it, you know, the high levels, like, nOh, yeah, what the
hell; let's try it," you know; and now I'm -- I'm not,
you know, I -- I think there's enough open issues
besides the ones that Chuck raised.
So I definitely don't -- don't agree with the
approach of -- of having the Council look at it.
That'll completely unempower the Planning Commission,
and that's -- that's something that's happened in the
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1 past, where it's like, you know, it comes here, and then
2 it goes down there; just, you know, "You guys just cross
3 the T's and dot the I's," and that -- that's not, I
4 think, what we -- what we want there.
5 So I just -- given that there, you know, that
6 there aren't major problems with the current process,
7 and that I see potential problems here, I'm kind of, you
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know, either don't do it, and certainly not do it as
as -- as -- as it's outlined here, but I -- I just say
maybe good idea, think about it some other time.
We got
too many other things that we're working on.
this is going to be a whole new --
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: So would you want to
send it to the ~lanning Commission instead of the
Because
Council? I
I was thinking along those lines
originally, but staff thought it sounded like a better
idea to send it to --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
No, I mean --
the Council.
I mean, yeah, it --
the idea of having a -- you know, having the
representatives, which is somebody from each, that's got
a little different view or whatever, I mean -- I mean
some of it, you know, we get, you know, some people
come
come to us anyway with some early, you know,
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early, you know, it's like "woah" type of things.
So, I mean, there's a current process for them
to make sure things aren't -- that they're not way off
track to begin with.
So I don't know what -- what this adds to
that.
I mean, they can go to any individual and get an
7 individual--
8 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: I--
9 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: -- view.
10 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: I think what it adds
11 to it is the -- is the public. I think right --
12 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Well, but it's not.
13 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- now they'll
14 they'll approach
15 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: That's the problem.
16 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- Council members
17 individually.
18 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Right.
19 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: They'll talk to the
20 staff without the public input; and I -- I think, from
21 my point of view, what it adds is more openness, from
22 the public's point of view.
23 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: But without noticing,
24 and, you know, broadcasting and all that --
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COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
it doesn't.
why I'm irguing
it's either a Councilor a Planning Commission thing, so
it's -- it's widely enough distributed that people see
it coming.
Even if you don't specifically notice
somebody, people notice what shows up on the Planning
Commission and the Council's agenda.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Let me toss an idea in here if
I might.
One of the things that I was a huge proponent
of, and that I don't think we do enough of, which is
demand develop -- developers to go to the public
earlier.
I mean, that's -- that's why I think the South
Vallco plan worked so well, is because the public got to
be heard at a meeting and helped, at least hopefully,
influence what the developer wanted to see on that
property.
And -- and that's where I think, frankly, Mark,
that we'll get the most publicly input, is
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Mm-hmm.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
-- at these developer-hosted
meetings.
We don't have -- we don't demand that until a
developer comes in here with a formal application; then
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1 we say, "Okay, go host three meetings and tell the
2 public what it is you want to do on that property."
3 I think we should talk about putting that
4 aspect in on the front end and having the developer do
5 that.
6 I -- I forgot; there was another development
7 long before this -- this South Vallco plan, where we --
8 where we asked the developer to do that; and they found
9 out -- it -- it might have been Marketplace, but I'm not
10 positive; and they found out issues such as needing to
11 put in different HVAC systems, such as putting in the
12 odorless -- or the odor-capture -- capturing machines.
13 And that was something that we'd been hearing about at
14 the Planning Commission and Council meetings for years.
15 But for whatever reasons, developers, at the
in the
16 Marketplace in -- in general, was not really in tune
17 with that, until they went out to the public again.
18 And -- and so I'd rather see developer-hosted
19 meetings, telling the public, "Hey, we just bought this
20 parcel," or, "We're considering it, and this is," you
21 know, "we'd like to hear what you would like to see on
22 it, and this is where we think we're going, in a
23 sketch."
24 And that's where I think they get the most
25 public input.
.
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COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yeah, I -- I -- I'm
not in disagreement with that.
I think what you said is
correct.
That's why I was saying that maybe we don't do
it the same as other people.
The -- the -- the -- the tricky thing is, is my
original thinking was, just because of what the person
said, it goes to the Planning Commission. And -- and
the problem with that is the Planning Commission can't
say, "Gee, you might need a zoning change," or, "Gee, we
want to make you go talk to the people," or something,
and the Council could do that.
So I don't know that --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Mm-hmm.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
-- we want to -- I
don't think we
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Mm-hmm.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
-- want to weigh in on
details.
I don't think somebody's going to come to us
with something, and we go, you know, "You want six more
parking spots," you want to do that.
I mean, they may just kind of say, "I'm
thinking about a hotel here, or something"; and we go,
"You know, you got a pretty big piece of land, and this
is a pretty big project," and maybe, you know, we -- we
can direct them.
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I mean, Vallco, because it was such a big
project, came to us, and we had the ability to
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Right.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
-- go and direct them
to the -- to the public.
But had they not come through, had they gone
through the regular channels, they wouldn't have come
here until they had a set of drawings and they're
looking for final approval.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Well, and that's why I'm
saying change the way we do business.
The -- the other example is Cupertino Square,
when we asked them a number of times to go have those
public hearings, to go talk to
at their own -- at --
at their nickel; and they refused and they refused and
they refused, until they brought us an application; and
we said, "We're not taking action till you go do these
public hearings."
And so that's why I think it needs to be
incumbent upon our process to -- to really mandate
development activity.
You know, over a certain square
footage; not for every small -- small development; but
mandate it, early in the process, to go to the public.
And then they -- they pay for the noticing fees, et
cetera.
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COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
Right.
So --
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
But --
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
So -- so the question
4 is, rather than just mandate it as a process thing --
5 sorry, Gilbert.
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COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
It's okay.
Go on.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
. .. do -- do we want
to have them come before the Council and make a few
comments, so we say, "Well, we want you to go to the
public three times, or twice," or -- or, "By the way, we
also want you to look at these things," or something; do
we want to have just a
time, to give a little
a -- a small amount of their
which we sort of did the last
time around; they -- they gave some presentations, we
talked about it, they gave a little input, and then we
decided, "We want you to go do this."
I mean, so the question is, do we want to
mandate a specific process, or do we want to bring them
before either this Councilor a subset of this Council
or some other group, to kind of give them direction as
as -- as --
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
I'm going to answer that real
quick, and then I'll get to you, Gilbert.
I -- I, in a way, don't want to do that. And
25 the reason why I don't is because I'm
I -- I'm leery
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of what Chuck warned us of, is when we start having too
much of a discussion before we have an actual
application in hand, then do we start discounting
whether we can vote on something.
Do we -- do we make
one slip, "Oh, 'this looks good," can be interpreted as,
"I'm going to vote for that project," and then somebody
can challenge that statement later down the line. So
I'm I'm more leery of that than anything.
But thanks, Gilbert, for waiting.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Thank you very much
(unintelligible) .
And with all respect to staff, Chuck, Steve,
you know, I -- I'm going to see a little bit different
from what you said and a little bit different from --
from
MALE SPEAKER: Hmm?
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
-- from what the Mayor --
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
(Unintelligible) .
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
-- said as well too, is
that my years on the Planning Commission, as well as my
on the City Council, is that
short tenure here on the
the community feels that
that
that they're not
they're kind of
involved, or -- or -- or they're
boxed out.
And again, you know, we have a -- a good
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1 process, where we have a good, professional staff, and
2 they -- and they present an application, and it gets
3 negotiated for several months; they might reach an
4 impasse, but it's usually brought attention to the
5 Planning Commission or the City Council.
6 invest a lot of money.
Yes, they
7
But regarding to, you know, all the reports
8 and -- and -- and -- and traffic, smell, community
9 meetings, et cetera, this developer community is -- is
10 now smarter, that they already are doing it.
11 And you brought up a very good example, is
12 Vallco Fashion Park Mall, that they refused to do
13 community meetings; when they do community meetings,
14 they will do it, you know, at the same time we're having
15 a City Council meeting or a Planning Commission meeting;
16 and some applicants do a very good job, and some
17 applicants do a -- a horrible job.
18 I think that by kind of formalizing it and not
19 making any commitments or -- or whatever, it kind of
20 says to the community, "Hey," you know, "we have an open
21 process"; we can do it on a study session between the
22 5:00 and 6:00 o'clock hour; give it one hour, and -say
23 that, you know, "This is coming to town, and they're
24 thinking about, you know, A, B, C, D; and this is just
25 logistic; it could change; if you have any further
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concerns after this study session, why don't you address
it either directly to our staff or address it directly
to the applicant."
That at least it's -- they know that it's on
the horizon, versus that once it goes through -- all the
way through the process, it's more or less either we
agree it or we deny it.
And I think that this is, you know, every city
cannot be fit in one -- one coin.
I --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Mm-hmm.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
understand that.
But
I think that we're kind of like in between that -- that
process.
I think that we're kind of outgrown, you know,
this process, and maybe we're -- we're
we're growing
into another process; and I think that by having a
planning session, study session through the City
Council, that at least the applicant knows that they're
talking to to us.
I mean, the best example would be Toll
Brothers, and how very frustrated that our staff feels,
that every time, you know, they may not agree with
22 staff, they'll just pick up the phone call to City
23 Council; and -- and I think that we can avoid that
24 process, because Chuck will make sure we will not fall
25 into that trap.
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CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN:
Chuck won't be there to
do that.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
I'm still wishing that
Chuck will stay here -- is that our new City Attorney
will make sure that we won't stay here -- I mean, do
that.
But I think that if we --
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Do what? I'm--
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
That we don't fall into
10 the old trap of -- of -- of how we do business the old
11 ways, how we how the City Manager explained how we
12 you know, regarding
13 MAYOR SANDOVAL: (Unintelligible) .
14 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: the -- the -- the --
15 the neighborhood groups that were formed, because they
16 were upset; they didn't like how we are doing things.
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And this is a way that -- a suggestion that,
you know, let's try this for a year. Make it
mandatory. Make it open. Make it transparent. And if
it works, it works.
If it doesn't, it doesn't.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: So -- I'm sorry.
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: I think you're putting a
lot of -- of pressure on either the attorney or
yourselves to always make the right -- make the right
statements at such a thing. And that just won't happen
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1 every time.
2 Historically, you probably even remember, 15
3 years ago or longer, I know that Orrin does, it was
4 decided that we would have study sessions on
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COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Right.
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: -- major projects.
Good idea; very similar to what is being
8 proposed here.
And it worked fine for four or five
years; and then gradually, it became the tail that
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wagged the dog.
It became the hearing.
It became where
11 the deals were cut.
It became where -- where the
12 decisions were made; and it -- it wasn't as a result of
13 any bad motives on anyone; that's how it evolved, and
14 the human nature.
15
It's hard to sit there and say, "I'm not -- I'm
16 in favor of this," or, "I'm not in favor of this," at a
17 study session.
18 But once you say that, when it comes up again,
19 you're -- you're immediately criticized for having made
20 the decision on an earlier, less than -- less-advertised
21 hearing than the formal, legal hearings.
22 And so don't expect you always to be able to
23 fight off this -- this issue with respect to not taking
24 a position early on; because I guarantee you, somebody,
25 somewhere, will take a position that on -- at a -- at a
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study session that will come back ultimately to haunt.
And eventually, it became a big deal, where
where the citizens said, "We don't want these study
sessions," and the Council had to get rid of the study
sessions, get rid of the -- the whole process for a
6 while; now we're back again; sort of a deja vu.
7 But you can certainly try it, but you do have
8 those risks.
9 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: But the difference with
10 those study sessions is that they were done at
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Blackberry Farm; they were done with no television
technology.
not have
Of course, back then, 15 years ago, we did
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: There was
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- television
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: There was no tech
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- technology; but there
was -- as we got earlier, we could have done it
televised, but we didn't, you know.
So it's kind of like we're kind of advanced
from it; we've learned from the past mistakes, and we
can improve --
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN:
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN:
Actually --
-- (unintelligible).
-- that makes it worse,
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because when you say something, it is televised; and
when you say, "I'm in favor of these retail developments
here, that these
these will look wonderful on the
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everybody's against it; and
and they will point to
whoever Council member said that and say, "You can't
vote on that, because you've made a decision, and here's
the -- the record of what you said before; and you're
not being -- you can't provide a fair and impartial
decision."
That's the problem.
I don't mean to overemphasize that problem, but
I have to present it as an alternative to what Steve
says; and it makes a lot of sense to try to get an
early early view of things, but --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Then what do you suggest
for --
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: -- be -- be careful.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- an early vehicle to
let the community know that this project is coming up
and they can address it toward staff as well as the
applicant?
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: Well, actually, the -- I
think the Mayor had one option, and that is the public
-- public hearings; there's absolutely no legal problem
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with any of those.
I think those are excellent.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: But that's --
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: From a legal standpoint.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
Correct.
But that's -- I'm just talking about being
proactive prior to; and I see it differently from you,
that you -- you -- you think that there's no loss for
the applicant regarding spending money early, but I
think that --
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: Oh, there is a loss for
the applicant. I say that that this project
primarily benefits the applicant.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: And I see it
differently.
I see that it's a benefit for the public,
to get involved, so that -- that the -- the public can
kind of help the process, as -- as -- as well as the --
maybe the Planning Commission or City Councilor
wherever, which body we send it to.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
Just a quick note, it --
that suggestion that Mayor Sandoval carne up with was the
public and the applicant talking together early. It
would be your expectation as a Council that this would
take place as, you know, very early in the process,
before they file their application, so they can have
that communication.
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"You can then tell us when the meetings are,
and we can observe."
bind.
And -- and that keeps you out of that -- that
It's a public meeting, not a public hearing.
It's just a public meeting with the applicant.
That's not a -- that's a good alternative,
actually.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
But my concern is that
some applicants does a really good public hearing, and
Peter Powell's one of them; and I hate to choose one,
but Allen Wong, when he did it, did a lousy job.
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: And--
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: And--
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: And you're not going to be
able to help them with that. Unfortunately.
And I'll -- and I'll
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: And (unintelligible)
DIRECTOR PIASECKI: -- refresh your memory
that
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
-- formalize it
through
DIRECTOR PIASECKI:
-- Toll was -- was actually
in a public -- in a public forum. They brought their
plans forward to the Council several occasions, in fact
over a year period of time, to the point where you were
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talking about the Planning Commission feeling like they
were already usurped.
The -- the staff never made a recommendation on
that application, because the Council had already
spoken. We were implementing what the Council had
already said. And that's all we did.
And so for what it's worth, I -- I -- I think
it's good that you keep yourselves as distant as
possible. That's why the ERC was only seen as the least
of all other evils, is -- is -- is it some minimal, and
I'll be quiet.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Orrin.
MALE SPEAKER: (Unintelligible) .
MALE SPEAKER: So I -- so I --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Orrin wants to weigh in here.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
I -- well, I have a
clarifying question for both of you guys.
What -- what I'm hear ~- what I think I'm
hearing is you like some ideas here, but you're
certainly not supporting the proposal as it is here
MALE SPEAKER:
(Unintelligible) .
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
-- which is not
mandatory, and the ERC people, and all that.
Is that what -- is that what I'm hearing?
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yes.
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COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
I --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
Okay.
I -- I -- I --
(Unintelligible) .
Correct.
Okay.
I want some community
involvement, but I -- I think the ERC is going to smell
like it's being done behind their back --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: So
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: and I don't like
that.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
in that case, I
you know, if we want to send it back to Planning or
something, I mean, I don't think we need to craft
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Right. We're not going to
settle this tonight --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: -- craft --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- it sounds like.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: -- the -- the answer
tonight, is we're too (unintelligible).
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: My only concern is that
if we're going to send it back to the Planning
Commission, is that we need to give them some kind of
direction; because if we don't give them some kind of
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direction --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: I agree.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: then, you know, I
mean, if -- if we can't get it here tonight, my -- if
you don't decide it here tonight, then sending it to the
Planning Commission, and then coming back here tonight,
you know, even though the --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Well--
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: conversation's very
friendly.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
-- you can set the
parameters to --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Right.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
send it back.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Yes.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: But I agree with you,
you need to set --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: We have to set some kind
of parameters.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
-- some parameters.
So, I mean, you know, like you -- I heard you
wanted to make it mandatory; some people may not; some
people may say that you need public -- these will be all
Planning -- all City Council; we maybe could decide some
of that.
So --
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COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: We can start with his
parameters.
I'm fine with that.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Well, let -- let me toss out a
couple other ideas too, as we're debating this; and one
of them would be, instead of having -- so the first idea
I tossed out was totally development run.
Another idea is to have the developer come here
and run their own public hearing with our system here,
and maybe they pay a little bit larger fee than $500;1
don't know what it costs to get people here in this room
earlier; but then they have the then we have the
capability of having it filmed; we can run that
continuously on the City channel, as we do run a number
of other items; and so again, it's still -- it's still
more developer driven; and you don't actually have a
body that's listening to the presentation, but they're
really doing a presentation to the community.
So that's an idea I'll throw out as part of the
debate for the Planning Commission, if we send this back
to them.
If -- if your idea is really to get the
community more knowledgeable early on about what a
developer is doing.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
I -- I -- I think the
-- I think there's two separate things here.
One is getting the community involved. And
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1 . maybe we can separate them. And the other is, do they
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get any input from any officials, either Planning or
the or the Council, other than staff.
And so let -- so let's take the community thing
first.
I mean, I -- I think, you know, we -- we did an
interesting thing with Vallco; and interestingly enough,
Vallco did come in front of us, and we did say things,
and then we sent them off to the public; so I don't --
you know, so it does happen that things come in front of
us, that are big projects, early on anyway; and this has
already been our -- our
I'm -- I'm assuming
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
you mean Sand Hill.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yeah. Yeah, what did
I say?
FEMALE SPEAKER: No, no he was talking
about Vallco.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Well, Vallco --
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Okay, Sand Hill,
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COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Yeah.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- I mean Sand Hill.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Okay.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Well, Vallco,
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1 there's
2 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Well, South Vallco.
3 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- there was three
4 projects, so --
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COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: You're right.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yes.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
South Vallco.
I do mean Vallco.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
South Vallco.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: South Vallco.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: And so I -- you know,
I would be -- I -- I -- I -- I guess I would -- I would
be okay with just saying, look, we want to -- we want to
force over a certain size or something, a community
outreach program.
The question is, do we want to do something
more than that.
So I would like to do at least that.
I I really -- I really think that right now
the public being left out of the process is causing us
all problems, all of us.
And I and I think getting some public input,
you know, will make, you know, help; for one thing, it
will help the developer too. They want to know if
they're going to hit a stone wall from the public down
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1 the road.
Nobody wants a referendum corning after them,
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whether it be a developer, the City, the staff, you
know, the -- the public doesn't want to have to do it.
So -- so I'm okay with maybe looking at that.
And then the question is, is there some group,
is it the Planning Commission, is it the Council, or --
or maybe we do form a commission; maybe we do have some
that
notice or -- or something for it, but that
that addresses that.
And the other -- so the other half of the
11 equation, the first half is, do we get the public
12 involved early on; and I -- I think that's a good
13 thing.
14 And then the second thing of that, is there a
15 way to give any -- I'm not sure if I want to use the
16 word "guidance", but any input that's (unintelligible)
17 that before, you know, before we -- we just send them
18 on their way; and -- and maybe -- maybe the public input
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I -- I
I -- I just don't -- you know, the
current process to me is not horrid, but it's -- it's
causing consternation on the part of our citizens, and
that's a bad thing.
I -- I -- you know, people ask what -- what do
I want to see happen, you know, when I'm on the Council;
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1 and what I want to see happen is the people of our
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community feel like they're more a part of our
government and that there's not things going on behind
their back, and they -- and they know what's going on
and what we're all doing. And so, you know, because
when people don't know what's going on, then there's
always conspiracy about something.
And so I'd -- I'd like to see the -- the -- the
public feel that
that this Council and this staff
is -- is working for them.
So -- so I'd like to see it be more open and
some more of the public can have some input earlier on.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: And I do want to --
point you made earlier, I mean, the -- the
you either
said or implied it, that the -- that the only group that
could force them to -- to have these public meetings
is -- is the Council, and that's -- historically, the
Planning Commission has done -- has done that and is
empowered to do that. So it doesn't have -- if -- if
that's part of your thing, that we have to be involved,
because we're the only ones that can make them do that,
that's just not --
I --
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
true.
I -- I -- I guess
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1 that -- that -- because I was originally thinking it
2 would be the Planning Commission; and -- and -- and
3 staff had pointed out that -- and I don't remember all
4 the details Steve or -- made, but there were certain
5 things that it's kind of like, well, the -- the Planning
6 Commission really wants to stay out of politics and look
7 at the planning end of it; and there's other things
8 that -- that -- that may require the Council's ability
9 to do; for example -- and that was one -- one example,
10 maybe that was a bad one, of maybe if there's some kind
11 of zoning thing required, or some kind of public-policy
12 thing that's more of a political issue.
13 So I -- I don't -- I don't have a -- a -- a
14 strong -- I'm not -- I'm not arguing really strongly
15 for the group.
16 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: No, I was just --
17 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: I don't like the ERC.
18 I'd like either more of each group involved, or -- or
19 one group or the other; but I don't like the ERC,
20 because I don't think the public's going to take notice
21 of it. I think Jennifer's going to be the only one
22 there, and -- and I'd like
23 MAYOR SANDOVAL: Mm-hmm.
24 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- to see more people
25 aware of it.
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MAYOR SANDOVAL: Mm-hmm.
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG:
I haven't
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Kris?
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG:
say a word.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: (Unintelligible) .
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: I asked you.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Well, now you --
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: No, you want to cut in a
question, I don't let go -- let -- let you go.
Well, really what I heard here, there are three
parties:
City, which I -- the Council, which the -- in
the process, the Planning Commission, and then the
Council, is kind of like the same groupi and then the
the community, and then developers. And I feel the
three need to really balance.
The bad example in the past was Toll Brother,
that I remember when I first started. I was really
bothered by this study section, over and over. And then
toward it -- the -- the -- the end, it was like the
Council was really proud of -- that they have started
cutting from 800i the developers requesting 800,
planning for 800 something units, to the 500 something,
and then it's like, "Yeah, you should approve for 300
something."
I was like, "Where that coming from?"
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This was all done in the study section, which
2 is totally wrong.
And then now we -- we say, "Okay,
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back out."
And I'm -- I'm the one totally proponent for
transparency.
Government need to be transparent.
So I -- you know, I disagree to meet with
developer ahead of time; and I try and encourage my
colleagues not to do so as -- as well; because you kind
9 of tie your hands to, nOh, I don't like this; I like
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that"; and then by the time they come to here, they
already have your mind, and they were just trying to
So that's bypass
meet your -- your -- what you want.
the -- the committee.
Then we now say, okay, public hearing, outreach
15 to community, okay, "Go out to outreach community for
16 three times," or something.
17 And then they come back with -- say, "I've got
18 this group approved, and we got that group approved";
19 there's like they're the government.
20 So this really kind of like, you know, how you
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pull three balance.
I wanted to mention one thing, that we have a
general plan.
So any developers that coming, that 90
percent of them complying with the general plan, they're
right there.
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I don't see why -- unless they have like a Toll
2 Brother, or they have rezone issue or something that's a
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major issue.
It doesn't matter how big, how small
the -- the size of the project; as long as they comply
with the the general plan; the general plan has been
reviewed by the the -- the public, has been approved
by the Council and everything.
So then it kind of like, you know, you don't
empower much into the community; we're just going to be
10 chaos.
Or, you don't want to micromanage this out front
11 and say what Planning should do or should not do it.
12 So it -- it's -- it's -- you know, the wisdom
13 should kind of like making a balance.
14 I'm the one -- actually, I'm on the
15 environmental, right; right now, it's the ERC; we, yeah,
16 at the meeting, we have a -- set the schedule every two
17 weeks it's meeting, or twice a month, it's meeting, and
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if we have agenda; so people knows it, they come.
And we don't do any major decision.
There's
one Council, one Planning, and -- and the staff. We
basically only do the -- review the circulation, the
safety and those things. I mean, you can define
that's what the ERC's about.
For -- for this particular items, if you want
the ERC to preview the development proposal before --
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1 ahead of time, to answer Jennifer's question, I will say
2 you can review it, but you are not necessary to approve
3 it; so by the time they're ready to submit it, the
4 application, you still go through the process, having
5 the ERC do approval, and to the Planning and to the
6 Council.
7 But now, we're -- you know, because -- because
8 this kind of triggers a lot of discussions, I support we
9 do the -- encourage developer to do the community
10 outreach.
11 But, you know, there's really kind of
12 intangible. What do you want them to do to bring it
13 back? I mean, they can hear their public input, but
14 that's about it.
They're not going to just build the
15 way that the community want it, because that's not what
16 it is.
17 You know, we do have a general plan. They
18 complain everything was general plan. And then
19 somebody's corning in, said, "No, I want you to build
20 park."
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It's like, "What is this?"
You know.
23 So there's not a -- really not a good solution
24 here; but I -- again, I would say the Council should not
25 meet the -- the -- the developer ahead of time, and
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everything should be transparent.
Yeah, I -- I agree that they -- if they care to
do some outreach, in a certain degree, as long as it
complying with the general -- general plan, go ahead, go
through the process; I think that's something.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: All right, let me see if I
can't bring this to some resolution before we all start
wishing that we were home.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Too late.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
If you're --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Too late.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- not already.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Too late.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
Too late.
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: Chuck is --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: We got voted for.
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: Chuck is trying to get
something; Chuck is trying to say something, or what?
MAYOR SANDOVAL: So--
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: Well
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Let -- let me
let me try
this first, Chuck, because I heard several colleagues
say let's send this back to the Planning Commission for
a little rework.
I think some of the criteria needs to be in
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1 there is a trial period of a year; that the Planning
2 Commission needs to address the noticing issue; that the
3 Planning Commission should address the -- what I heard a
4 couple people say was no staff work being done, because
5 it is a first review; and the Planning Commission should
6 probably also address who in their mind thinks should
7 host this pre-review meeting.
8 CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: It may be helpful if you
9 -- if they could also work on, if it's going to be a
10 citizen pre-review, that the City ought to really
11 develop a structure for that meeting, rather than having
12 it just loose; and that -- by that, I mean they have
13 required noticing, required hearings; questions to be
14 addressed, like will a general plan amendment be -- need
15 to be -- to occur --
16 COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: Right.
17 CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: -- in this case; what
18 about this, what about that; deal with all -- all of
19 those with the public at large; and certainly, members
20 of the Planning Commission and the City Council could
21 attend to observe; but structure that so that they ha.ve
22 to address certain issues, would make a lot of sense.
23 You know --
24 MAYOR SANDOVAL: Okay.
25 CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: -- and maybe that's what
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the Planning Commission should do.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Mm-hmm.
I -- I --
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Mark?
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
I -- I -- I think one
-- I like your list, except I think that there was also
sort of a size or number of lot kind of thing that I'd
8 mentioned that
9 MAYOR SANDOVAL: What--
10 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- some people
11 were (unintelligible).
12 MAYOR SANDOVAL: What amount of square footage
13 triggers this, then?
14 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yeah, and there's two
15 things; both would be a square footage or a number of
16 units, if it's a subdivision, because it --
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MAYOR SANDOVAL: Yeah.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: You know, some
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Yeah, that they --
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: thresholds. It may
MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- they figure out
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- be just the size.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- what the trigger is.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: (Unintelligible) .
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COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Oh, yeah, and whether
or not it's a mandatory process.
I -- I --
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
think they went for
voluntary.
I -- I don't know how the rest of the
Council feels.
I -- I felt it should be mandatory for
trial period, but I don't know what the -- the rest of
you didn't really weigh in on that; so before we send
that back, some people might want to --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: The -- the more I hear
about it, the more I -- I don't want to send it back; I
just want to shoot it.
I mean, I just think it's --
sorry.
I mean, it's just -- it.'s just
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
I thought you want to
shoot it back to. Planning Commission.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: No, I just want to
shoot it.
I mean, I think it's -- it's -- it's more --
it's got way more downside and complexity --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Yep.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
-- than -- I don't
see -- I don't see a tremendous amount of upside.
I -- I think the idea of having -- which we
already have the ability, and we can ~ontinue that
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1 policy, if you will, of -- of encouraging public input;
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I think- we
we ought to continue to do that; but to --
to talk about a new process here, that, you know, that
we're all kind of -- we'll send it back, and they'll
work --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Yeah.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: on it, I just --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Well, then make a motion.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Hang on a second.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Yeah. We haven't
finished this discussion yet.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yeah, I --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Well--
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- I disagree.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Well, we don't have a motion
to discuss right now.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Well, if you're going
to make
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Well, well, point of order,
but --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Well, you can make one
then.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
I -- I -- I -- you
know, I think we should do -- do something with it. And
I -- I -- I'm a little leery to just send it back,
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but -- but maybe if we do put some things, like, "Here's
some ideas that we have thought on," let them work on
it.
I mean, I think it's important.
I think -- I
think the public does need to be involved, and I think
we need a
we need a better process.
And and -- and -- and Chuck had some good
ideas about maybe we set up a more formal thing. And
maybe the Planning Commission looks at that and -- and
kind of, you know, if -- it's late; maybe they'll get it
earlier in their agenda and they'll be fresher and
they'll be smarter than we are and have some -- some
better ideas.
I mean, just -- we didn't like their first
approach, but I think they -- they kind of looked at it,
threw on the agenda, and they decided to take a shot at
it in one night, and they had no public input.
I -- I -- I think it's important the public get
more involved, and I I thipk Vallco sort of
20 .demonstrates that. And so I'm not -- I'm not willing to
21 just let it go.
22 Maybe we don't have the right answer, but I --
23 I think there's some -- I think there's some good stuff
24 there, and it would behoove us to maybe try to figure
25 out what that is.
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1 So I -- I I -- I -- I disagree. I want -- I
2 like -- either I'd I would like to deal with it here
3 or send it back. I'm I'm okay, I'm flexible; but I
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don't want to just shoot it.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Well, well, I -- so
I -- I still might want to shoot it; but if you send it
back, there's a complete -- this thing -- this thing
initiated -- you got to look at what the goals are.
This thing kind of bubbled up as a -- a way to
speed the process along, minimize some false starts on
the developers; I mean, that's what I heard. At least
that -- that was, you know, that was the -- kind of
the
the things I heard about here.
It didn't start
out as a way to get more public inp~t or anything.
So if that's our goal, that's a completely
different thing. We could send that back. We could
say, you know, "Now that we've had this discussion,
those objective aren't our primary objective at this
point in our time; our primary objective is some of the
things we liked in the -- in the South Vallco," you
know, "mini -- mini review," or whatever we called it,
you know; and -- and setting up a process to formalize
that so that we're not at the discretion of a developer
to go, nOh, this -- this -- this is a good one; this is
a bad one"; so we know what a good one looks like; what
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1 does -- what does a good public hearing look like,
2 whatever.
3 That'.s completely different than how this thing
4 started; so we're --
5 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Right.
6 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: -- we're kind of
7 mixing all that stuff --
8 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: To -- to -- to be --
9 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: together.
10 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: clear, what I said
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in the beginning is there's this really -- if we can
we -- we can separate it if we like.
things.
There's really two
One is the public input, and the other is
trying to have the process work better.
And -- and the process working better, if you
-- if if a developer gets a better answer in less
time, that's not only good for the developer, it's good
for the community, and it's good for the Council, it's
good for the staff, it's good for all of us.
So I don't just see it as community input,
which is very important to me.
that --
I don't want to loose
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Right, right, right.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- part of it, so I'm
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fighting for that part.
But I also want to see it as a way to get a
a better result in less time, which is -- which is a win
for all of us as well.
So I
I see it as both of those things.
And it -- and it just so happened that this one
7 city, who I wish I'd have taken notes and talked to them
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a little longer, we were both running off to another
meeting, thought their process was working really well;
and so -- and
and they had a lot less squabbles
between staff and the Planning Commission~ and -- and a
lot less negative community input at -- at the end of
the process, according to the staff person I talked to.
So I -- I just think we can do a better job.
I
hear time and time again people, you know, complaining
about our -- our current process, and I just --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Yeah.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: think we can
make -- do a little better job.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
I just haven't --
nothing has -- in all of the discussion here, nothing
has kind of synthesized -- on that part of it; the --
the -- the part about public input, I think a lot has
synthesized up here, that we're all on track for --
for --
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MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Greater
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
moving that --
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
-- public participation.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
-- yeah, in -- in
in some way, and structuring that more formally, or, or,
you know, all that stuff, that's all good stuff.
I'm hearing stuff here that would, you know,
kind of get me that.
The other thing, about how this might look in
terms of should it be the Council, should it be the
Planning Commission, should it be a mixture, should it
be mandatory, should it be optional, I don't sense -- I
don't -- I don't -- I'm not up here going, "Yeah, okay,
now I know where we're heading."
So since -- I'm still like, on that part --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Chuck.
-- it's -- it's not
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
doing anything.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Well, I -- I think
Chuck frightened us all to death, so
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: He was a -- he was a
key part of it, but -- but it -- but only --
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: City Attorney
(unintelligible) .
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
-- only because -- not
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1 because of what he said as a lawyer; what he said as --
2 as his experience, long-term experience in the
3 community, where -- where he's seen things go back and
4 forth, and -- and work and not work.
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But anyway.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Well, I'm going to still,
7 again, ask, after all this very good discussion for an
8 hour, that I would entertain some kind of a motion here.
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COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
Okay.
Can I take a
shot?
So I'm going to lose at this, I can tell, but
I'll
I
I'm going to make a motion that we refer
this back to the Planning Commission, with -- and I --
I -- I -- I can go through the whole list, but I think
Dolly had the list of -- of things that we want; more
community involvement; we want no staff time taken up,
17 no prep time from staff; we want to limit the time frame
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on it; we want some boundaries of how big or -- of -- of
a magnitude of a project that
that kicks in; and then
I think I said that, but just to reiterate, because I
missed it, to make sure that there is a public-input
phase of that; and then also, if there's some body that
should look at that, who their recommendation would be.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
There's a motion
CITY CLERK SMITH:
Can you repeat
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MAYOR SANDOVAL: is there a second?
CITY CLERK SMITH: -- your last sentence.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: That if there's some
4 body that should look at that, who that body should be;
5 in other words, be it the -- the Council, the Planning
6 Commission, ERC, or some other entity that's formed.
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COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: I thought we said no
8 ERC. I thought we said a mixture.
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CITY CLERK SMITH: And--
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yeah, I guess we said
11 no ERC, but -- but whatever's formed.
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CITY CLERK SMITH: Madam Mayor, if I could ask,
(:'. 13 what did you mean by "limit the time frame"?
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COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Sorry, were you asking
15 me or the Madam Mayor?
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COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: It's your motion.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Sorry.
CITY CLERK SMITH: You -- in your motion, you
19 said "limit the time frame." Did you mean
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COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Oh, the --
CITY CLERK SMITH: -- twelve months?
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- the -- the
23 the -- the time that gets spent on the -- on the issue.
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COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Staff time.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: You got the -- are you
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1 talking about the staff time?
2 COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: No staff time.
3 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yeah, no staff time.
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CITY MANAGER KNAPP: What you're envisioning,
we get 15 minutes for this item, and that's it; is that
what you mean by
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
I'm envisioning
there's some time limit, yes. And if it's -- for
example, if it's in front of the Council, you'd --
they'd have a time limit as to how long would -- that
they and the Council is willing to spend; if it's a
separate group, there may be a different time limit,
depending on who the group is; but whatever that group
is, that it's got some limit on the amount of time.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
Except if you want public
input, you're limiting the amount of time.
If -- if you say it's 30 minutes, and the
developer spends 15 minutes and the Councilor the
Planning Commissioner or the whoever spends another 15
minutes, then you're not having any public input there.
Right.
I -- so -- so
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
I wasn't -- I wasn't specifying that -- that there's
no -- that you limit the public-input time; that -- that
you -- that you -- they -- they decide if there's going
to be a time limit on it.
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We -- we don't --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Okay.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: They could say they
want no time limit; but I presume, depending on the
entity, they're going to want a time limit.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Okay.
Was there a second?
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
Second.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: And one of the other items I
brought up was to have the discussion about just having
a developer run mandatory community meetings.
amenable as part of the
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yes.
Is that
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
-- your motion?
Sure.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO:
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Okay.
For -- so for the Planning Commission to also
consider this alternative, to a formal body of this
local government taking up their issue, just having the
developer kind of replicate the South Vallco, getting
out, talking to residents, having public hearings on
their own, a developer-run public hearing. Or public
meeting.
Thank you.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG:
So I assume that was a
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friendly amendment.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: I'm asking; and
I (unintelligible).
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: It wasn't an amendment,
it was just --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Right.
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN:
whether it was
included in the -- in the original motion, right?
MAYOR SANDOVAL: I asked if -- if that's
10 also -- was that included, and he said
11 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Okay.
12 MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- "Yes. "
13 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Okay. You're using the
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COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: I -- I think that was
a friendly amendment --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Well--
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- and I'm -- I'm
amending it to
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Well, I'm not asking for
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: -- the second
(unintelligible) .
MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- a formal -- formal second,
I'm asking if that was part of his --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Okay.
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MAYOR SANDOVAL:
understanding.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Got it. Got it.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:" Is it part of yours?
Got it.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: No, I
I -- I think
5 that's a great idea.
6 MAYOR SANDOVAL: Okay.
7 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Okay.
8 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: But -- but I think it
9 is an amendment. I don't -- I certainly didn't get
10 that --
11
12
13 thing.
14
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20 thing.
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COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yes.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: -- at his original
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Correct.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: I mean --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: That's why I was --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
that's not a --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: That's why I was
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: That's a fine-tune
MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- reiterating it.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Yeah. Yeah.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: All right. Let's vote.
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: So the Planning
25 Commission's getting --
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CUPERTINO CITY COUNCIL JUNE 2, 2008 ITEM 15
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Okay--
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: the --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: -- so let me be sure
I'm -- I know what --
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: Yeah.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY:
we're voting on.
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: All right.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: I just want to be sure
I know what -- because I'm -- the -- the -- the friendly
amendment; so -- so what we're saying is for the
Planning Commission to evaluate all these things, but
that we would -- if, after they evaluate all that, if
if -- if one of their decisions is to just have a -- a
more-robust public-input process, we'd be okay with
that; is that -- is that what the motion and second is?
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Wouldn't it be easier to
ask the City Clerk to repeat the motion?
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Well--
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: Well, he's
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: the sense is
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: the one that made the
motion.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: No, I want the -- I
mean, that's fine. It's not the -- I'm
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: We ask --
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CUPERTINO CITY COUNCIL JUNE 2, 2008 ITEM 15
1 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: -- just the sense of
2 what--
3 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: We ask them to
4 evaluate those things within those parameters; and one
5 of the thing to evaluate is whether or not it's either
6 part of it is to -- to -- to -- to have this public
7 thing, or -- or that would -- it could be just that, or
8 included with the other.
9 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: It could be just that,
10 though.
11 MAYOR SANDOVAL: Mm-hmm.
12 COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: We ask them to
13 evaluate
14
15 fine.
16
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20 then.
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COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: No, okay. That's
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: within --
MAYOR SANDOVAL: That's
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: these parameters.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Then I'm -- I'm good,
All right.
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Yeah.
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: So what kind of time
23 frame you're looking for, for the Planning Commission to
24 get it done?
25 MAYOR SANDOVAL: Well, we only have -- we
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probably won't take it up in two weeks, because they
probably won't settle this next week --
COUNCIL MEMBER SANTORO: Right.
MAYOR SANDOVAL:
-- so we're --
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: There's no rush.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- looking at August at the
very earliest for this to come back to us.
And there is no rush. And they may have a
hefty agenda.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: No rush.
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: (Unintelligible) .
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: (Unintelligible) .
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Okay.
COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: (Unintelligible) .
MAYOR SANDOVAL: A motion's been called, so
that we can focus.
All those -- please vote.
CITY CLERK SMITH: Motion carries unanimously.
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: Madam Mayor, you might
also want to send a transcript of this proceeding to
them, so that they can see all the different views;
because I'm not sure that there's any consistent view,
and they're going to need to know what you all think.
They can listen on the tape, but it's so much better to
have a transcript of the -- those proceedings.
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1 MAYOR SANDOVAL: As much as I abhor the idea of
2 the staff time to transcript the last hour and 15
3 minutes
4 CITY CLERK SMITH: Staff will --
5 MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- I think it's
6 CITY CLERK SMITH: be hiring someone to do
7 that.
8 MAYOR SANDOVAL: I -- I --
9 CITY CLERK SMITH: (Unintelligible) .
10 MAYOR SANDOVAL: I think it's probably a worthy
11 cause.
12 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: And the
13 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Courtesy
14 (unintelligible) .
15 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: So Chuck, you really
16 don't think that -- why
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MAYOR SANDOVAL: Yeah.
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: I mean, given that we
have it all on video, that that's
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: No, I think it should
be --
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: Well, I --
COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: in writing.
CITY ATTORNEY KILIAN: I
I'm old fashioned.
25 I like to read the words. Because then I can go -- go
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CUPERTINO CITY COUNCIL JUNE 2, 2008 ITEM 15
1 back to them and -- and compare them and things; whereas
2 on the tape, it's a little different concept.
3 If you don't want to do it, don't do it.
4
COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: Well, could we leave
5 it up to them if they need it?
6 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: No, I think that --
7 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: (Unintelligible) .
8 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: it -- it -- it should
9 be in written, so that there's no misunderstandings,
10 because there were so many different ideas, that at
11 least the Planning Commission will get an idea; because
12 if you saw the -- what -- what was written here from the
13 Planning Commission, I'm just a little bit disappointed
14 (unintelligible).
15 COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: Do you know how much is
16 it?
17 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: I'm sorry?
18 COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: She going to hire
19 someone. It's going to be a huge --
20 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Right.
21 COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: -- book.
22 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: Yeah. I -- I --
23 COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: It's in a book.
24 COUNCIL MEMBER WONG: -- I think black and
25 white is a lot better.
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1 COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: Do you know how much it's
2 going to be?
3 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: I don't know; I'm kind
4 of--
5 MAYOR SANDOVAL: I'm -- I -- I'm going to
6 COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: I'm kind of worn out.
7
MAYOR SANDOVAL: I'm going to -- I'm going to
8 leave it to the staff's expertise --
9 COUNCIL MEMBER WANG: I think, yeah.
10 MAYOR SANDOVAL: -- rather than us drilling
11 down on that; because we're really a policy level
12 setting body, if you don't mind.
13
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COUNCIL MEMBER MAHONEY: I don't mind.
MAYOR SANDOVAL: Thank you. Okay.
(WHEREUPON, Item 15 concluded.)
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1
C E R T I F I CAT E
2
3 STATE OF CALIFORNIA
ss.
4 COUNTY OF SANTA CLARA
5
6 I, Dana S. Parrott, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were transcribed into
8 typewriting from a recording to the best of my ability,
9 by myself, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and a
10 disinterested person in said cause.
11 I do further certify that I am not of counsel
12 for any of the parties to said proceedings, nor in any
13 way interested in the before-mentioned cause named in
14 the said caption.
15
16 hand.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23 Date:
24
25
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
~"
--- -
Dana S. arrott, #C-5700
~I-, 20d!
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Santana Row thrives despite a slow economy - San Jose Mercury News
Page 1 of 2
~e.mertUtl\ News
MercuryNews.com
Santana Row thrives
despite a slow economy
STILL A DESTINATION SPOT FOR RETAILERS,
SHOPPERS ALIKE
By Donna Kato
Mercury News
Article Launched: 06/13/2008 01 :38:09 Ahli PDT
Have your say!
. Vote and comment:
. How would you rate the retail
mix at Santana Row?
The economy may be slowing but Santana Row, one
of the most ambitious retail developments in the Bay
Area, continues to thrive and dominate as Silicon
Valleis premier spot to set up shop. Four retailers,
a bakery and a specialty tea store are slated to open
this summer.
Recession worries and rising gas prices have most
consumers keeping a watchful eye on wallets, yet
retail sales made a surprise 1 percent jump in May,
the biggest increase since November, the Commerce
Department reported Thursday.
That bodes well for Santana Row, the
shopping/dining/residential complex that has
become the top-choice destination for 'many area
residents and visitors in the five years since it
opened.
Critics in 2002 wondered if a center with luxury
stores such as Gucci and Burberry was too
extravagant after the dot-com crash. Santana Row
not only proved them wrong, but has done so well
that it draws out-of-towners, parking is nearly
Advertisement
o
impossible on weekends and new, exclusive
retailers are signing long-term leases.
By August, for example, shoppers and diners will
have a shoe store where they can try on Christian
Louboutins, an eatery where they can indulge in
decadent cupcakes and a new place where they can
buy the same brand of workout clothes worn by
Hollywood celebrities like Katie Holmes and Jennifer
Garner.
"Welre already pretty strong with what we offer now,
but ifs always a healthy thing to change things up, II
said Tom Martin, who qecame general manager of
Santana Row in March. "Welre just going through
another evolution."
That evolution includes growth in some different
directions.
Last month, the San Jose City Council granted the
development permission to add 160,000 square feet
of office and retail space to the 41 acres it occupies.
With the additional office workers and retailers,
developer Federal Realty Investment Trust hopes for
a spike in business during the slower weekday
afternoon hours.
Dawn Becker, who heads the West Coast operations
for Federal Realty, said the addition of new stores
offers "a chance to rejuvenate the center. II
In its first five years, retailer turnover has been
similar to the national average for similar malls, she
said. The developer now has a stronger sense of
what mix works in Silicon Valley.
"Welve become a place where people come to hang
out. The restaurants have done really, really well
and one reason is because therels a concentration
within walking distance. If one is too full, people
stroll down to another' and shop on the way."
,~
_ ____.r--=.-:-... ~ .._~L~~ ..___~
http://www .mercurynews
Santana Row is adding more business space to irs leasing availability in the hopes that ~o~ow~~~~sR~il~ dine and shop in the sam
vicinity they work. Today is June 11,2008. (Karen T. Borchers/Mercury News) (KAREN .
Santana Row thrives despite a slow economy - San Jose Mercury News
~eJltertury News
MercuryNews.com
Shop and eat
While traditional malls count on anchor stores to
draw customers, so-called Ilifestyle" developments
such as Santana Row often see restaurants and
movie theaters as the main draw, with people
shopping as they wait for a table or taking a walk
after a film, said Howard Tupin, a research analyst
for RBC Capital Markets.
"These are the projects that seem to succeed, II he
said, especially when the mix of retailers can
interest a range of demographics.
High-end retailers Tod's, St. John and Bottega
Veneta have left Santana Row, but Burberry, Gucci
and Ferragamo remain as original tenants. New
retailers have included decidedly more mainstream -
and youth-drawing - stores such as H&M and
Product.
III love it here because it's like a community, not a
faceless mall,lI said Karie Bennett, CEO of Atelier
Aveda Lifestyle Salon, one of the businesses that
have been at the complex from the start.
The eclectic mix is one reason why the retail space
is nearly 100 percent leased with 70 shops, 20
restaurants and nine spas. The 514 residential units
are 95 percent occupied.
IIWe were drawn to the uniqueness of it, the outdoor
setting and the affluent clientele, II said Garrett
Schwartz of Product, a store that specializes in hard-
to-find cosmetic brands. The company, founded by
Schwartz and his wife, Maria Martin, is based in
Phoenix and has two stores in Arizona and one in
Portland, Ore. They opened in San Jose in October.
IA great fit I
IISan Jose is a great market with great
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o
Page 2 of 2
demographics,lI he said. lilt offers an experience that
we were a great fit for:'
Other retailers opening this summer are:
Vera Bradley, which offers accessories and home
goods made from colorful, quilted fabrics.
Lululemon Athletica , a store that specializes in
lIyoga-inspired" workout wear that's the current rage
among frequently photographed actresses.
Boutique Harajuku , a clothing store that takes its
name from the hipster, .counterculture district of
Tokyo. It's become a familiar name to 'fashionistas
thanks to pop singer Gwen Stefani's backup dancers,
Foot Candy, which carries pricey footwear such as
Louboutin, Jimmy Choo and Manolo Blahnik.
Kara's Cupcakes, a San Francisco-based baker that
uses local ingredients and purveyors to make the
treats.
Hankook Tea, a Korean company that offers fine
teas, tastings and wares, is also set to open its
doors in August.
Donna Kato at dkato@mercurynews.com or (408)
920-5393.
http://www .mercurynews
Silver light fixtures and a poster decorate the colorful interior of Santana Row's newest business called Product, which sells make-u~
and other beauty products. Today is June 11, 2008. (Karen T. Borchers/Mercury News) ( KAREN T. BORCHERS)